Saiga: 16 or 20 inch?

[Deus Machina]

Shopping around for an all-purpose rifle. Will be converting a Saiga.

Anyone know if there's an appreciable difference in accuracy in these two? I like it compact, but if there's a much better grouping for an extra 4 inches of barrel, I'll spring that extra bit for a better range or hunting experience.

 

[sarduy]

what caliber are you looking at? because as a general rule, longer barrels (20'', 24'') have more accuracy than shot barrels (10'', 14'') when used in the same weapon, if you are looking at a .223 go with a 20'' barrel, it give a little more speed to the bullet therefor more accurate, if you want a 7.62x39 to convert it..well use a 16'' barrel. Now, if you want a .308 i would recommend that you go with the 20'' barrel, for the same reasons as the .223

note: if you want to convert them just go with the 16'' since a traditional AK are 16''. but if you want it for hunting or shooting at 200.300, maybe 500 yards go with a 20'' barrel.

ETA: It's better have it and don't need it, Than need it and don't have it.
those extra inches are only going to help, plus they are only 4'' not 10

 

[sarduy]

Anyone know if there's an appreciable difference in accuracy in these two?

at 100 yards, NO!

at +200 yards, Yes! (but not much)

I like it compact, but if there's a much better grouping for an extra 4 inches of barrel

if you want it for Home-defence or shooting at 100 yards the 16'' is more than enough.

 

[jhansman]

I debated this issue for some time before settling on the .16" .223, mostly because I knew I was going to convert it, and that it was never meant to be a target rifle (SHTF only). For me, it only has to do two things: go bang when I mean it to, and hit what I aim at within 50 yds (so far, it does both). Also, 16" models were available, and the 20 inchers were nowhere to be found. Love the gun. Gen. Kalashnikov's design is simplicity perfected.

 

[shevrock]

Deus Machina where are you getting your saiga. i have only seen 16 inch versions.

 

[Girodin]

I have a bunch of saigas of various calibers (I have a few shotties as well). I would answer no. Particularly if you will be shooting it with iron sights from field positions. Also if you are going to be running cheap ammo through it that will affect accuracy more than barrell legnth.

Also a fair number of people have actually reported getting better accuracy with their shorter barreled versions.

I prefer the 16" for the .223 and 7.62x39. They handle better and look better IMO. I for a few reasons think that the longer barrel is the way to go on the .308.

Saigas have good accuracy for what they are in my experience but if accuracy is your primary concern or much of your shooting will be 300 yds or more then I would buy a bolt gun. I love my saigas for what they are 1.5-2.5 MOA guns (which is prett good for sub $300 semi autos IMO). Guns that go bang everytime and easily make COM hits out to 200 yds fired off hand with open sights.

When I need or want serious accuaracy however, I use one of my bolt guns.

 

[rbernie]

because as a general rule, longer barrels (20'', 24'') have more accuracy than shot barrels (10'', 14'') when used in the same weapon

Longer barrels may give higher velocities (flattening the trajectory slightly) but as a general rule they are NOT more accurate.

Also a fair number of people have actually reported getting better accuracy with their shorter barreled versions.

True for mine. My 16" 308 and 7.62x39 Saigas are more accurate than their longer-barrels brothers.

 

[aka108]

Have 7.62X39's in both barrel lengths. The 16 is the most accurate and the longer version is going down the road this Winter. 16 is also better handling without the extra metal on the bow.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Given the generally terrible ergos of AK types, it needs all the help it can get - thus go with the lighter handier 16" bbl. Unless it's a .308 - then you want the longer for the weight.

 

[elmerfudd]

I like the 7.62x39 in 16". It makes for a nice compact little rifle and I don't think the x39 round suffers much with the shorter barrel. There's certainly no issue with excessive flash or concussion.

I also prefer the .223 in 16", but an 18" barrel might be better. The .223/5.56 round does a little better with a longer barrel than 7.62x39. If you're using ammo that fragments, it's fragmentation is dependent on velocity and with the 16" barrel you probably have about a 150 yard range where you can count on it fragmenting with a solid hit. As far as I'm concerned, that's good enough. Like the 7.62x39 there's not much concussion or flash even with the shorter barrel.

In .308 you have the choice between 16" and 22" and I'm not really thrilled about either. I think 16" is just a little too short for the cartridge and 22" is just a little too long for the design. You give up too much velocity and gain too much muzzle flash with a 16" barrel in .308 and given the accuracy limitations of the AK design, there's not much to be gained by going with a 22" barrel over one a couple of inches shorter. In .308 I would recommend getting the 22" barrel and then having it cut down to between 18 and 20 inches.

 

[FMJMIKE]

I chose a 20 inch barrel Saiga in .223/5.56 because it reduces muzzle blast and increases bullet velocity. Bullet velocity is very important with 5.56 rounds if you want the bullet to fragment upon impact. Accuracy is around 2 MOA with cheap Wolf ammo.

 

[AK103K]

How about 14"



Shoots like this at 100 yards, and this was a slow fire offhand target using the Aimpoint....



or cross legged sitting....

Given the generally terrible ergos of AK types, it needs all the help it can get -

This is all a matter of opinion and familiarity with your rifle. Most people who have spent just a little time with an AK know this is basically a false statement. Some of us actually find them to be superior all around to the AR's and others. An AK with an Aimpoint on it, with easily keep up with any similarly equipped AR, and shoot pretty much the same out to 2-300 yards on realistic targets from field positions.

 

[MiddleAgedKen]

The other issue is where and how you'll be using it. If you plan to cavort through the brush and trees at any point, the 16" barrel might be handier. If not, then base the decision on the points the other posters have already raised.

 

[MyRoad]

In .308 you have the choice between 16" and 22" and I'm not really thrilled about either. I think 16" is just a little too short for the cartridge and 22" is just a little too long for the design. You give up too much velocity and gain too much muzzle flash with a 16" barrel in .308 and given the accuracy limitations of the AK design, there's not much to be gained by going with a 22" barrel over one a couple of inches shorter. In .308 I would recommend getting the 22" barrel and then having it cut down to between 18 and 20 inches.

+1
I completely agree with "elmerfudd" -- 16" is too short, and 21.9" is too long.

I actually just finished researching what would be involved in cutting one down. The only gunsmith I know well and trust, told me that to properly cut down and recrown the barrel it should be removed entirely from the receiver, and that with Saiga's (and other AKs) that's so much work that he won't do it. So I backed away from that project. It seemed like an affordable alternative to a PTR91 or FAL, but I'm not sure its really comparable.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Yeah, I agree with that too. I had the 22" Saiga .308 and sold it due to heavy/bad ergos. But it could be improved with a "goldilocks" 20" bbl.

 

[Deus Machina]

Alright, I should have specified.

7.62x39, since I'm a fan of the round for both price and practical reasons (I like the larger caliber and tapered brass).

It will probably be used for hunting, but maybe half a dozen times in my entire life. If it can hit a heart-area or head-sized group with a scope at between one and three hundred yards (which might be stretching it), I consider that quite good enough.

Other than that, target shooting. Mostly at 100 yards.

It will, eventually, end up with the barrel threaded or an adapter pressed/epoxied on--anyone know which it would need, for AK brakes?
It will also end up with relatively cheap glass. Dot view for home and range, and a cheap low-power scope for the range and possible hunting. On a rail on or over the cover, instead of way up front.

All-purpose and SHTF gun. I figured 4 inches won't make it really clunky, but if it's not helping any, I'll save the fifty bucks and couple ounces and get the shorter one.

 

[MIL-DOT]

FWIW, I'm really happy with my 16"s, the longer barrel is just too unwieldy and IMO, looks goofy. Also,from most of what i've read on AK/Saiga forums, there's no real increase in velocity or accuracy going from 16" to 20" ( to be fair, i believe this was primarily in refernce to using the standard x39 round).

 

[sarduy]

i just love my Saiga .223 20''

and since i don't plan on convert it (at less not this one) i'll go for a SVD look intead.

 

[AK103K]

It will, eventually, end up with the barrel threaded or an adapter pressed/epoxied on--anyone know which it would need, for AK brakes?

You want the brake threaded on. The AK74 type breaks are the best. The original type of those are threaded to the front sight (22mm), but they do make versions that thread to the barrel (14mm) with an adapter.

It will also end up with relatively cheap glass. Dot view for home and range, and a cheap low-power scope for the range and possible hunting. On a rail on or over the cover, instead of way up front.

Skip the cheap glass, it will only end up costing you more in the long run.

If your going to use it for hunting, a good red dot mounted low and forward is your best option. The rifle shoulders and shoots just like it does with the iron sights(you get the exact same cheek weld), and it allows you to cowitness the iron sights to the dot. There is noting faster or easier to shoot with. Snap shots on targets 100 yards and in are a breeze. Mounted low and forward, the sight is out of the way of both handling and your field of view, allowing you to see more.

Stay away from top cover mounts. The mounts that go on the side rail usually sit to high for natural shooting.

 

[shevrock]

Does the saiga come with a lower rail for the bipod?

 

[Deus Machina]

Does the saiga come with a lower rail for the bipod?

Nope, but I have a couple machines and experience on precision work such as steam engines and various pneumatic workings in excess of 700PSI, starting from block form.

It will have a couple rails shortly after I get it.

As for mounting any glass, I'll have to check how much the cover shifts in firing, or if I will have to extend a mount off some place more stable like the front rail (if applicable) or stock or receiver.

A couple deer, maybe a hog or two, over the course of my life is all I can expect. I'm more a fisherman than a hunter. I know for certain I won't hunt with it enough to warrant really nice, expensive glass. Really, anything that doesn't shake out of zero will be fine, but I do assume $20 scopes out of the bargain bin won't hold to that demand.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I would go with the 16" without hesitation, regardless of caliber...