There is a pic of a Saiga just like that on gunbroker. I thought that the Saiga didn't have high cap mags unless converted, with no pistol grip options unless converted. Apparently they can be purchased just like the one above directly from Siaga?
Saiga and AK Buying Questions
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Deer Hunter
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Unless it has the correct amount of compliance parts, it's not legal for it to accept high capacity magazines. If it did have the correct amount, I'm sure it could be legal and still have the sporting stock.
nwilliams
Member
My converted Saiga I picked up recently......It was converted by Hesse
but then again all they replaced was the gas piston, furniture and trigger group.....So I don't think there was much they could have screwed up and I've taken it out a few times and it shoots great!
but then again all they replaced was the gas piston, furniture and trigger group.....So I don't think there was much they could have screwed up and I've taken it out a few times and it shoots great!
I really like my .223 Saiga. It has been converted by Tromix and is heavily modified. It is really, really accurate for an AK (2 MOA with 62 grain Barnaul). And it shoots steel-cased ammo reliably, which is nice. I also have an Arsenal SLR-95 milled AKM, which is another really nice rifle. But the SLR is no where near as accurate as the .223 Saiga. The Saiga is an amazing rifle, considering how light it is.
Here is my Saiga with an Aimpoint CompC3 mounted on it.
This rifle with everything you see cost me $1375 (including $375 for the scope). Most people don't realize how nice the guts of these rifles are. I could have bought an Arsenal K-101 for about the same money. But I really do think these Saigas are worth altering their configuration and putting some quality parts on them. This is a really, really nice rifle.
The only complaint in the world that I have with this rifle is that there is a little wiggle left-to-right when the mag is seated in the mag well. It doesn't affect firing at all (no failures yet whatsoever), but everyone likes to have a firm magazine seat with no wiggle.
This one was modified by Tromix and accepts Bulgarian waffle mags. It has never even hiccuped.
Here is my Saiga with an Aimpoint CompC3 mounted on it.
This rifle with everything you see cost me $1375 (including $375 for the scope). Most people don't realize how nice the guts of these rifles are. I could have bought an Arsenal K-101 for about the same money. But I really do think these Saigas are worth altering their configuration and putting some quality parts on them. This is a really, really nice rifle.
The only complaint in the world that I have with this rifle is that there is a little wiggle left-to-right when the mag is seated in the mag well. It doesn't affect firing at all (no failures yet whatsoever), but everyone likes to have a firm magazine seat with no wiggle.
This one was modified by Tromix and accepts Bulgarian waffle mags. It has never even hiccuped.
Interesting, I guess I am unclear as to what “compliance parts” are needed.
This Saiga http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=88510556#PIC cannot take standard AK mags, so I guess it has the compliance parts being as it is using a 30 round mag and skeleton stock. The only down side then is the cost of Saiga mags vs standard AK mags??
Nwilliams, gun looks good. You’re in Prescott? My Grandparents live there. They LOVE it. I am down in Mesa.
I read this link; http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/Step_1.htm
Is this essentially the process you followed in your conversion? I have been told that this process is a little dated, as laws have changed. Some have said that the pins can be removed without drilling, and that the binding posts aren’t definitively needed. I found the link on the website Nalioth suggested. I am trying to get my head around the process before I go buy the Saiga. I am not familiar with the AK platform, and have never done anything like this before.
NOTE- nevermind, I just realized you didn't do the conversion yourself. Was it spendy?
nalioth
Member
Kenpo, there is no such thing as a "high capacity Saiga mag". You will find factory 10 rounders and then you will find amazingly expensive rewelded military mags (weld added to make them function in the Saiga).
Using any magazine in a 922r incompliant Saiga over 10 rounds is against the law, no matter if it fits and functions or not.
If you read what nwilliams wrote, he did not convert his rifle. He bought it that way. It was converted by a company with a really bad reputation.
You may go by the cross-conn site, or you may read up over at the saiga forum. The cross-conn site is about 10 years old and there are lots of things that can be done now, that he does not show you. The laws have changed since that was written, as well (if you don't live in NY or CA).
Using any magazine in a 922r incompliant Saiga over 10 rounds is against the law, no matter if it fits and functions or not.
If you read what nwilliams wrote, he did not convert his rifle. He bought it that way. It was converted by a company with a really bad reputation.
You may go by the cross-conn site, or you may read up over at the saiga forum. The cross-conn site is about 10 years old and there are lots of things that can be done now, that he does not show you. The laws have changed since that was written, as well (if you don't live in NY or CA).
rbernie
Contributing Member
<pet peeve>
As far as I know, the ATFE has issued no guidance suggesting that the use of a modified AK magazine in an otherwise-stock Saiga puts the rifle afoul of being considered a 'sporting' arm. The continuous insinuation that using an AK mag in a Saiga requires 922(r) compliance may be prudent in the absence of AFTE guidance, but let's not overstate the case to insist that it's 'against the law'. Truth is, it may or may not be and nobody knows for sure.
</pet peeve>
You wanna prove me wrong? Show me an ATFE letter stipulating that the Saiga would not be considered acceptable for import if it came in with an AK magazine. I'd love to see it.
nalioth
Member
rbernie, I'm sure that I do not want to prove anything from a jail cell.
Better safe than sorry.
If you want to play with the "it may be or it may not be" illegal, you have fun at it.
Better safe than sorry.
If you want to play with the "it may be or it may not be" illegal, you have fun at it.
Dollar An Hour
Member
So if I've decided that I want a 100% new AK and have narrowed it to the Arsenal SLR-107CR or the converted Saiga from Atlantic Arms, what are some advantages of one over the other? They are very close in price, one is Russian and the other Bulgarian...
They are both nice rifles, especially the Arsenal. But who is doing the Atlantic Saiga conversions? If I was going to pay someone to do a conversion for me, I would only pay two companies, because I know they would do a top notch job. Tony Rumore at Tromix and Chris at AKUSA. Otherwise I would just convert it myself, which can be done for about $150 in parts and some hand tools.
So to answer your question, I would buy the Arsenal if given the choice between those two. Arsenal makes some nice rifles.
rbernie
Contributing Member
And I'm OK with that attitude - it's prudent. I only quarrel with your statement "Using any magazine in a 922r incompliant Saiga over 10 rounds is against the law, no matter if it fits and functions or not."
Advising folk to be prudent and PRESUME that it's illegal in the absence of ATFE rulings on the matter is sound advice to give to strangers on the Internet. Telling people that it's flatly illegal may achieve the same end, but it's not quite actually true.
Arsenal makes some superb AKs, but their last round of SLR106's gained a lot of negative press on some forums for feed issues and general unrelaibility.
If you don't want to do a Saiga conversion yourself, I think that Geojap gave you very sound advice.
There is a fellow on youtube shooting a Saiga that I thought was converted. He posted that it is not converted and that you can now buy pistol grip / folding stock configs and 20 and 30 round mags for the Saiga with no modification needed.
If this is true, from a purely practical point of view, what is the point of doing a Saiga conversion? The only reason I have entertained a conversion is for the pistol grip and high cap mags?
Just curious. Thanks.
If this is true, from a purely practical point of view, what is the point of doing a Saiga conversion? The only reason I have entertained a conversion is for the pistol grip and high cap mags?
Just curious. Thanks.
rbernie
Contributing Member
The stock Saiga trigger is horrid, courtesy of the 'sporterization'. Converting the rifle back to standard AK config allows you to install a decent trigger (e.g. Red Star, G2).
Also - if the Saiga *does* need 922(r) compliance to legally use hi-cap mags, the Russian folder and SureFire mags will get you in deep juju if you don't perform a proper conversion.
Also - if the Saiga *does* need 922(r) compliance to legally use hi-cap mags, the Russian folder and SureFire mags will get you in deep juju if you don't perform a proper conversion.
If one was going to add a pistol grip, I think the main reason to do the conversion correctly is to avoid time in a federal penitentiary and the associated financial loss.
You may want to read up on 922(r) compliance. Saigas were imported as "sporting arms" (which do not fall under 922(r) regulations) and as soon as one adds a pistol grip, they are now not "sporting arms" any longer as was initially allowed for importation. They then need to have the minimum of 10 imported parts to be legal.
This is a good place to start:
http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=40375
Thanks for the clarification. No need for deep juju here!
10 US made parts huh... I bet that is gonna come around and bite someone in the ass, sounds la little convoluted .
So, does a company like Tromix (I looked a their site, nice rifles - big bucks for an AK) do something special enough to justify the cost, rather than doing it yourself?
10 US made parts huh... I bet that is gonna come around and bite someone in the ass, sounds la little convoluted .
So, does a company like Tromix (I looked a their site, nice rifles - big bucks for an AK) do something special enough to justify the cost, rather than doing it yourself?
the provide quality work. if you are confident with your skills, by all means, DIY. but Tromix does make GREAT guns.
if your intereseted, it may have been mentioned before, http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/
Dollar An Hour
Member
Tromix isn't even accepting orders due to backlog I believe.
How does one reach Chris at AK-USA, maybe he is currently selling converted Saigas?
How does one reach Chris at AK-USA, maybe he is currently selling converted Saigas?
nalioth
Member
Kenpo, the cost is up to you. If you go out and have custom furniture made (or buy the really expensive mall ninja stuff), you can easily spend the price of 2 more Saigas.
I converted a Saiga in my shop for less than $150 in parts.
I converted a Saiga in my shop for less than $150 in parts.
Thanks, I only anticipate the basic conversion. I like the Saiga furniture just fine, and am not interested in making it "look as close to..." or anything like that. Just want a reliable, well made AK for as little $ as possible, but better than a WASR 10.
jpwilly
Member
Don't forget that Lancaster Arms also makes nice AKM builds. I didn't want a conversion...I also wanted real AKM parts. Its built with a new Romanian "G" parts kit for starters. The action is smooth as butter & the finish is top notch!
Thats beautiful JP, but I can't imagine it is under 400 bucks! The Saiga I ordered was $260 (7.62) so plus a 150 in parts and I should be at right around 400. Right in my budget. I don't see a better option for a better rifle at a better price... am I missing something?
IMHO......a Saiga as pictured here........
http://www.savvysurvivor.com/saiga_rifles.htm
With that furniture.....it AIN'T an AK. A real AK, will bring "fear and loathing" to any Liberal's eyes, because it has the, "look" of an evil weapon. Like: I don't have the words to describe what is "pornograpy." But, I know it, when I see it. A "Saiga" doesn't do it. IMHO.
I bought my AK......Just to p*$$ off the Liberals in The Democratic Peoples Republik of Hawaii.
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Saiga, plus the costs of parts and gunsmithing to convert it back into a classic AK looking rifle........WHY?
Why not.......just get a Romanian and be done with it. But, IF you must have a RUSSIAN.......then so be it.
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Example:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=234
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The results of your search and buying efforts will vary. Some folks have access to large gunshows. With multiple dealers who will let you look through the inventory. While others may have an FFL dealer who may bring in only 1 rifle (you ordered and pre-paid for it), purchased from a wholesaler where he can get the most profit.
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Your mileage will vary.
Aloha,Mark
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