saiga bolt hold open on AK rifle?

[jason41987]

ive noticed a lot of new saiga rifles have a real bolt hold open feature.. and not some gimmick where the carrier catches on the follow of the magazine... with this BHO, the bolt locks back, and theres a lever you press with your index finger to release it....

so anyway, my question is, what would it take to get the parts of this BHO mechanism and make it work on a standard AK rifle (47 or 74) and also, so the smaller caliber saiga come with it? i noticed the .308 and shotgun models do

 

[Shadow 7D]

Why not, it's what it is, course you could get the same thing named a AK bolt hold open, they make those too

 

[TurtlePhish]

I've seen a couple of converted Saigas that manage to keep the BHO mechanism by modifying the FCG very slightly. However, it's still a manual BHO and doesn't lock open on an empty mag.

 

[jason41987]

id like to get one like the ones i see on some newer saiga... it locks the bolt back and you use your index finger to release it... shares the same pin as the hammer so one of the ends of the tube the hammer is on needs to be filed down for the BHO to fit... would love to get it in a regular AK rifle

 

[mshootnit]

when I convert my sagas I usually can the bho. I did keep it once and file it down so that it would be out of the way when you move the trigger forward. Only reason I would keep it is if I were restricted to a range where bho was required. It doesn't hold the bolt far enough back to manipulate cartridges or easily work on the chamber. The AK is so easy to field strip anyway you can just pull the bolt.
You would have to cut a hole in the receiver and use a saiga modified hammer to attempt to put it in a different ak model. there is a krebs modified safety lever I think that would hold the bolt open.

 

[Sam1911]

I do not believe that any of the Saigas come with a factory "Last Round Bolt Hold-Open." They do come with a manually operated Bolt-Hold-Open so that you can lock back the bolt if you want to, but it doesn't operate automatically on the last shot.

There are some folks making real LRBHO kits if you want one. Here's one such: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php...cation-first-range-report/page__fromsearch__1

 

[leadcounsel]

I've often thought at an inexpensive device would be a dust cover with an extended 90 degree 'hook' to catch the charging handle. It wouldn't be automatic, of course, but it would allow the operator to work the bolt partially back and put the dust cover up and lock the bolt rearward...

If anyone tries to copy my idea, you read it here first! Copyrighted 1 September 2012!

 

[elwoodm]

the reason why everybody bought up all the yugo ak 47 mags. they reliably hold the bolt open on last round. somebody in the business needs to make those mag followers that will fit in most of the com block mags that dont have the hold open feature. they would sell as fast as 54r brass somebody get the word out were starving out here !!!!!!!

 

[Sam1911]

elwoodm, those don't really solve anything, either.

Yeah they catch the bolt. But that's not the bigger issue. As soon as you pull the mag out, the bolt slams shut, leaving you having to insert the new mag against the closed bolt carrier and having to rack the bolt again anyway.

A REAL "LRBHO" would catch the bolt on the last round and hold it there until you've reloaded.

I've often thought at an inexpensive device would be a dust cover with an extended 90 degree 'hook' to catch the charging handle. It wouldn't be automatic, of course, but it would allow the operator to work the bolt partially back and put the dust cover up and lock the bolt rearward...

Is that different somehow from the basic safety lever hack most of us do, cutting a notch in the top of the lever to hold the charging handle back?

 

[jason41987]

http://www.parallaxtactical.com/store/images/lrbho.jpg

thats what i think was used in the AK i looked at, the follower bumps the BHO up and it catches the bolt.. meanwhile theres a piece that comes out the receiver in the rear of the trigger guard with a button on it that when you move it, releases the bolt.. it must be it...

however... the piece that bumps the magazine requires the magazine to be notched for it, and im not sure how this would effect reliable function of the rifle... someone should make a last round bolt hold open that was automatically actuated by a tab in the magazine that pops up on the last round... keeping obstructions away from the bolt itself

 

[Inebriated]

^Yugo or Chinese (can't remember which) have followers that catch the bolt on the last round, but when you remove the mag, the bolt still goes forward.

I think that if you're good with the AK and can do efficient and quick reloads, then the last shot followers are good, just to let you know you're empty without that thunderous "click". If you're looking for something to make reloads any easier, they're not the way to go.

 

[SpentCasing]

^Yugo or Chinese (can't remember which) have followers that catch the bolt on the last round, but when you remove the mag, the bolt still goes forward.

Yugo mags had that feature. The Yugo M64 had a real BHO with a release button on the side of the receiver by the trunion but Ive never seen a working model in the US.

 

[Bhi curamach]

I kept mine when I did my conversion on my s12. It makes it much easier to load magazines.
One detail you may wish to consider is the little lever end that sticks out from the receiver is right above the trigger. It is in contact with my hand when gripping the pistol grip. Annoying as its kind of sharp. I rounded the square edges a bit and learned to deal with it.
It doesn't affect any thing as it must be pressed in with purpose but it really needs. To be placed further forward or back. Any dang where but rubbing on the inside of the bottom forefinger knuckle.
Its VERY difficult to reinsert the safety lever with out cutting a small notch on the upper back section of the bolt hold open lever as well.
Only takes a few seconds with the rotary tool though.

 

[jason41987]

ok.. so there are automatic bolt hold opens out there as ive shown.. but they have issues but the concepts there... a tab in the magazine to push the lever up and lock the carrier back... but how can we make this work.. how can we make it better while being a solution that most of us could create at home?...

issue with the left side of the receiver is the retaining plate holding the pins in... any way we can switch this to the right side of the rifle to make room on the left for a thumb actuated release, or would we be better off having a lever come out in the forward section of the trigger group to be actuated with the index finger?

 

[Sam1911]

I think if you read a large number of the threads over on the Saiga forum you'll have a much better grasp of what has been done and who's tried what, who sells kits that are workable, and what you'd like. Very little reason for us to reinvent that wheel here, I'd think, and none of us are going to know all the answers those guys have spent so much time and effort already figuring out.

 

[jason41987]

problem with the saiga guys is their solutions are usually plays on the original, manual bolt hold open... i think we need to find an AK solution geared more towards the use of rifles with vertical pistol grips and find a solution more suitable and comfortable for the AK as for what it is, and not the sporter the saiga tries to be

 

[Adam123]

I've seen a couple of converted Saigas that manage to keep the BHO mechanism by modifying the FCG very slightly. However, it's still a manual BHO and doesn't lock open on an empty mag.

Ding. ding, ding... unless it can actually HO when a mag empties, it's next to worthless.

 

[Adam123]

I'll also add that when you convert a Sagia, the BHO mech. is then within the trigger guard area. This is not a good idea. You could easily have a scenario where your index finger bumps the BHO mech. and holds the bolt back when you don't want it to be held back. That is not good. I've seen guys trim the protruding portion of the BHO mech., but unless it's a LRBHO, it's not worth the hassle.

 

[Kymasabe]

Stop trying to change the AK rifle. It is what it is. You want a last round bolt hold open? Wrong rifle, look elsewhere.
The BHO that comes on Saiga's? Junk, I rip every one of them out when I do the conversions.

 

[Big_E]

Although the Saiga 12 is a shotgun, it basically requires the BHO. I thought I could get away w/o the BHO but the magazines, at least Surefire ones, require the bolt to be locked back to insert a fresh mag.

Otherwise, for normal Saiga rifles I'd toss the BHO. But, I'm over AK's now.

 

[Adam123]

Big E, I had no issues locking in loaded SGM mags. It's not as easy as it is when the bolt is open, but it's certainly doable with minimal effort.

 

[WardenWolf]

I kept my bolt hold open when doing my Saiga conversion. Dinzag Arms sells the modified fire control groups. The only "problem" with the bolt hold open is that reinstalling it is a female dog. The spring has to go around the hammer pin. I figured out how to do it with the use of 2 picks, but without two picks (one right-angle to avoid it popping out, the other to guide it over the pin), it involves a lot of pain, a lot of swearing, and you probably won't ever get it back on.

As for the Saiga 12, I never had a problem installing loaded mags with the bolt closed. Just position the front tab in first, then rock with authority. Locks right in, no problem.

 

[jason41987]

i have my own idea im going to try out that should work well