Saiga Questions

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hawkeye10

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:) I know nothing about these guns but I saw one on GB new for about $360. It shoots 762X39 which seems like a good caliber. I guess the main question I have is that they need to be converted. Why is that? Why can't you just shoot them the way they are? I have also heard about arsenal Saiga's. What is that all about? I know this all sounds pretty dumb to a lot of you but I just don't know. Don
 
They don't "need" to be converted unless you want to use high capacity magazines and/or a pistol grip... or unless you want a more authentic look or a better-handling tactical firearm. There are Federal laws one must follow if you change the factory configuration. The parts don't cost too much and they're fairly easy to install.
 
Don they are fine rifles, they function well and have as good or better accuracy than most AK rifles. They are built as right as you're going to get in terms of AK's. You don't have to convert if you don't want to. There are scopes and mounts and such that would turn it into a hunting rifle as it is.
 
Why?
Because they come in their import (Sporting) configuration.
Which is far from their original design, out of balance, with a awful trigger, worst polymer buttstock they could find, not able to to use surplus mags... Just a AK abortion.
Not very conducive to fun/good shooting.

Basic conversion is, Butt stock, pistol grip, FCG, and bullet guide... $150.00-$250.00
The sky... Errrr... Your wallet and imagination is the limit.
You can go classic or modern AK, you can dress it up Black Rifle AR, you can do whatever you wish, there are many aftermarket parts/accessories.

Arsenal imports Saigas, converts them and resells them.
They do a very nice job of it too, and their price reflects it.

YUCK!
100_8970.gif

Yeah Baby, Yeah!
100_9801.jpg
 
They don't actually NEED to be converted. They're just more awesome when they are. :D As it stands they're very good quality rifles that have Russian made chrome lined cold hammer forged barrels on a proper Russian made receiver. In other words the quality is really solid. They're also perfectly good to shoot as is.

If you want to make them all tactical a basic conversion to add a PG, buttstock of your choice, move the trigger forward, and fix it to take surplus mags can be done for about $150 parts in a couple hours. If you want a full coversion, which means changing out the front handguard, threading the barrel for a flash supressor, and I think the gas tube has to go as well, then it will cost a lot more.

As for Arsenal, basically they import saigas and turn them into mordern style (AK100 series) AKs. So essentially they do the conversion for you and they do a good job of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky
Centerfire systems has an AK that is on the cover for $399. Takes double stack mags.

http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/Ce...1b/2011072801/

Those look like a pretty good deal!!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

^ Saw that ad and although it looks like a good deal there aren't enough details on it. A lot of the $400 "Bulgarian" AKs are using US made barrels installed by Century. I'd be very wary of buying one. So possibly a good deal but I'd want more information about the rifles first.
 
Chile and Rob nailed it. The conversion is actually quite simple and very rewarding. I chose the basic conversion route, have just over $500 total in the rifle:

saiga_converted.jpg
 
^ Saw that ad and although it looks like a good deal there aren't enough details on it. A lot of the $400 "Bulgarian" AKs are using US made barrels installed by Century. I'd be very wary of buying one. So possibly a good deal but I'd want more information about the rifles first.
Click to expand...

I purchased one when they were selling for $349. Received the rifle and upon inspection was very pleased with the way the thing looked; it had never been fired. Everything was new inside.

Took the rifle to the range and it went bang every time with some Yugo brass cased corrosive ammo. When trying to sight the thing in the more rounds I shot the more I thought it was a POS compared to an SKS or an AR.

After studying the front sight and doing some measurements I decided the front sight was canted about 3 degrees to the left. Messed up front sights on many AKs over the years have kept me from purchasing any AK. I took an rubber mallet and whacked the sight a few times to make sure it was vertical and then went back an sighted the rifle in. "WHAT A DIFFERENCE 3 DEGREES MAKES"!

I am now liking the AK platform much better than I thought I would and it is certainly easier to clean than the SKS IMO. I like the 7.62x39 round and have been pleased with most aspects of the Russian design. Fit and finish on the one I received was good.

I did tell the guys at Centerfire to inspect the rifle and do not send me a problem child. Myself and the guys there missed the slight cant of the front sight. I have seen many an AK that the barrel is not even pressed to seat and is canted off a few degrees (usually to the left) Century anyone?? If that would have been the case Centerfire would have gotten their AK back in the mail.

I do not need an AK..They just never turned me on....but since I have got to play with the rifle and have enjoyed it I ended up getting a Saiga (410). Those Russian guns when not shooting at you are really pretty good.
 
Sky: Glad to know yours was GTG. And yes, front site cant does sound like Century's work. Most dealers don't inspect for it either but I know that Henderson Defense sells "certified" AKs that they've checked for typical defects like that. I think if I was buying a cheaper AK that I couldn't inspect in person before buying I'd probably deal with them.

Hawkeye10: I haven't done the conversion myself but I've heard of guys doing it with hand files, a basic drill, and a vice. I've also heard that a dremel and drill press make it a lot easier. The guys over at the Saiga12 forums will have a lot more information on it. If you're interested in doing it I've put a link below to a new line of Saigas being offered in country (as of yesterday) that already have the front end conversion done. They're a little more money than the current generation but there's less work to be done.

http://http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1018.aspx
 
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My saiga is a 5.45...I have not converted it so far, and have about 600rds through it now...It shoots great as is, and I may not convert it. BTW, mine works perfectly so far with surplus bulgarian poly mags...with no bullet guide.
The conversion require only the most basic tools and skills.
 
You don't need any special tools. A drill or dremel, a set of screwdrivers, and some needlenose pliers are about it. It wasn't hard at all to do the conversion, and I'm adverse to changing my own oil. :)

I even bought the dremel specifically for the job and only ended up using it to modify the existing safety so I didn't have to buy a new one. Yes, I bought a dremel ($80) to save $10. The math didn't work in my favor. :)
 
I have 2 Saigas. One is 7.62x39 the other in 223. I'm not interested in firing 30 rds as fast as I can pull the trigger so 10 rd Saiga mags do just fine for me. I see no reason to convert the rifle to give it the AK look. Its internals are all AK and converting does not change the way it shoots. They are wonderful simple pieces that just run and run. Not a star in the accuracy department but they were never meant to be. I did get the AK but and bought a Arsenal SA M7S before the prices skyrocketd. I never load more than 10rd in any of its mags. Why overheat the unit.
 
Its internals are all AK and converting does not change the way it shoots.
Click to expand...

My understanding was that converting improved the trigger pull/feel a good bit. Is this not true?
 
Tru'dat!

Yes, part of the conversion is moving the FCG (trigger) forward to it's original design location.
In it's sporting/import configuration it sit a couple inches back, and the trigger is linked to the rest of the FCG (Hammer, Sear & Disconnetor) via some POS linkage.
Horrible trigger IMHO.
When you move it, you can use any of a couple new US Made (922r compliant) FCGs, e.g. Tapco G2 (single hook) or Red Stars Arms Adjustable (double hook).
And you wind up with a good-very good trigger.
 
aka108 said:
I have 2 Saigas. One is 7.62x39 the other in 223. I'm not interested in firing 30 rds as fast as I can pull the trigger so 10 rd Saiga mags do just fine for me. I see no reason to convert the rifle to give it the AK look. Its internals are all AK and converting does not change the way it shoots. They are wonderful simple pieces that just run and run. Not a star in the accuracy department but they were never meant to be. I did get the AK but and bought a Arsenal SA M7S before the prices skyrocketd. I never load more than 10rd in any of its mags. Why overheat the unit.
Click to expand...
True, the internals are all AK, but with some extra crud, never intended to be included thanks to the Alphabet Gang.
This extra linkage gives the trigger all sorts of unwanted sloppiness.
Putting a good trigger into a gun does indeed change the way it shoots.

As does changing the balance of the gun by installing the pistol grip as originally designed.

Over heat the unit? Bwahahahahahaha... Thats hilarious.
 
Sky said:
I purchased one when they were selling for $349. Received the rifle and upon inspection was very pleased with the way the thing looked; it had never been fired. Everything was new inside.

Took the rifle to the range and it went bang every time with some Yugo brass cased corrosive ammo. When trying to sight the thing in the more rounds I shot the more I thought it was a POS compared to an SKS or an AR.

After studying the front sight and doing some measurements I decided the front sight was canted about 3 degrees to the left. Messed up front sights on many AKs over the years have kept me from purchasing any AK. I took an rubber mallet and whacked the sight a few times to make sure it was vertical and then went back an sighted the rifle in. "WHAT A DIFFERENCE 3 DEGREES MAKES"!

I am now liking the AK platform much better than I thought I would and it is certainly easier to clean than the SKS IMO. I like the 7.62x39 round and have been pleased with most aspects of the Russian design. Fit and finish on the one I received was good.

I did tell the guys at Centerfire to inspect the rifle and do not send me a problem child. Myself and the guys there missed the slight cant of the front sight. I have seen many an AK that the barrel is not even pressed to seat and is canted off a few degrees (usually to the left) Century anyone?? If that would have been the case Centerfire would have gotten their AK back in the mail.

I do not need an AK..They just never turned me on....but since I have got to play with the rifle and have enjoyed it I ended up getting a Saiga (410). Those Russian guns when not shooting at you are really pretty good.
Click to expand...
That is one problem that is all too chronic with the cheaper US parts kits rebuilds.

That is not a problem that you see with Saigas, very rare.
I think I've heard of one instance of canted FSB over at Saiga12.com.
 
I often hear criticism of the stock Saiga trigger. When I got my 5.45 Saiga, the trigger did feel a little notchy and stiff.
But, I cleaned the rifle and made sure to lube the trigger mechanism in all its points of contact. It got better immediately.
Now, after 600rds through it, the stock trigger has gotten much better. Smooth take up, and a crisp break.
And, while I own some pistol grip equipped rifles, including an AK, I find I really like the sporting style stock. It is quick to the shoulder, and points really well. I have a feeling it is better for scope use as well. Plus, for use as an HD rifle, it would probably be better to leave it stock. I find I really like the 5.45 round, and 10rds of the Hornady Vmax load is what I keep in my Saiga around the house.
I "may" do the conversion at some point...mainly because I want to run the highly effective AK74 muzzle break, and the FCG/buttstock/pistol grip is pretty much the cheapest way to accomplish that.
 
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