Sandy Hook Mass Shooting full report

[JohnBT]

I don't find it unusual that people with problems were prescribed drugs and that some of them acted out anyway. You don't go to the doctor repeatedly unless there's a problem. Maybe there would have been more shootings without the all the meds being handed out.

And the population of the U.S. more than doubling since I was born makes every kind of problem seem bigger to me.

The mental health "system" can no more cure most mental illness than the health care "system" can cure all physical illnesses.

 

[RussB]

I find it disturbing that mother kept firearms at the house that the shooter had access to. It's stated that mother took her son shooting often, hoping that would teach him some responsibility. In hindsight, it was a tragic miscalculation by the mother.

The mother & son were living in a very nice house, in a nice neighborhood. It's claimed that they/she received 200k annually in support from her ex-husband

 

[atomd]

When you think about all the different scenarios...sometimes there truly isn't anything we can do to prevent a nutjob with a gun from going into a school.....but we CAN shoot him if he tries. We just need to have that option to fall back on (obviously). Sometimes violence IS the answer.

Saying that these places should be unarmed is like saying they shouldn't have fire extinguishers....after all, they can just wait for the fire department. Heck, these days they have defibrillators all over the place. We can use those but we can't use a gun? It seems like we prepare for floods, earthquakes, tornados...parents won't let their kids ride a big wheel in the driveway without a helmet...but we can't prepare for a single violent whackjob?

There's just no logic to be found in any of this. We're literally letting people die because these hippies are too arrogant and bullheaded to admit that guns really do solve problems.

 

[Cee Zee]

I'm with you atomd. The only protection against a gun crazed looney is to have a gun of your own. Sure you can try to tackle a shooter and risk getting yourself killed but a skilled shooter can probably drop a nut job fairly easy I would think

BYW JohnBT, my concern is with the kids they give anti-depressants to that don't really need them. They do it a lot meaning doctors do it a lot. It's something that makes no sense because they know a certain percentage of kids will flip out and go nuts when they take those drugs. And doctors are pushing them on people just to make money IMO. Not everyone is depressed but they prescribe that stuff to dang near everyone that gets close to a doctors office. You wouldn't believe how many doctors have tried to give me that stuff. It's quit happening as much as it did but at one time every doctor I went to would write me a script for that junk without even asking me about whether I was depressed. I wasn't walking around with my head dragging on the floor or anything. They did a lot of people that way.

Read this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-300354/GPs-prescribe-happy-pills.html

The first sentence says:

"Four out of five family doctors admitted over-prescribing Prozac and similar drugs for those suffering from depression and anxiety."

Heck anyone that has to deal with living on a paycheck and trying to make ends meet is going to have anxiety. That's part of life. They pass that stuff out so people will have a reason to come back to the doctor often enough to get a new prescription. And some kids freak out because of taking that stuff. That's a really, really stupid thing to be doing. Doctors are worshiped by too many. They screw up like everyone else and some of them are greedy just like everyone else. Yeah I'm cynical about such things. I've seen too many doctors in my time not to think the worst of some of them. Like the doctor that argued with me saying I had a whole bunch of surgeries on my back. He could see the scars. Yeah nut job doc. I never had a single back surgery. I don't know what he was seeing but I think he needs to lay off the LSD or something. He tried to give me anti-depressants too. Oh yeah I trusted that looney.

 

[Onmilo]

I am old enough to remember when kids didn't have ADD, ADHD, OCD, or any other abbreviated and perceived ill, they were just annoying little S***s
None were prescribed drugs and all eventually grew up to become, somewhat at least, productive members of society without ever having dropped the hammer on some innocent,,,

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

I find it disturbing that mother kept firearms at the house that the shooter had access to. It's stated that mother took her son shooting often, hoping that would teach him some responsibility. In hindsight, it was a tragic miscalculation by the mother.

The mother & son were living in a very nice house, in a nice neighborhood. It's claimed that they/she received 200k annually in support from her ex-husband

The screwy part is I remember when there was a newscaster who went around to all the ranges within 50 miles of Newtown and could not find a single person who recognized Lanza as ever having gone to those ranges.

I am old enough to remember when kids didn't have ADD, ADHD, OCD, or any other abbreviated and perceived ill, they were just annoying little S***s
None were prescribed drugs and all eventually grew up to become, somewhat at least, productive members of society without ever having dropped the hammer on some innocent,,,

I was one of those unfortunates who got diagnosed ADHD at the age of 7. They stuck me on Ritalin until I was 14 and my mother couldn't stand to see me zombie my way through adolescence (not to mention the horrible digestive problems it gave me and stunting my growth). If anything that stuff screwed my up for life and to this day I still have attention and a bit of compulsion problems that I really feel I wouldn't have if it wasn't for those doctors (at least I'm able to control myself with guns but it requires alot of effort from myself to stay safe on the range). It also predisposed me to get addicted to meth for a short time when I was 17 and living with my dad in Texas. Ended up having to move back to my mom's in Kentucky for senior year of high school and had horrible withdrawal for damn near a year. That's the whole problem with our medical model in this country, if something is wrong, poison the system of your body that ain't acting right instead of fixing the problem.

Back to the topic of Lanza though one thing that has baffled me since day one. How in the hell do you dump over a hundred rounds of 5.56 with no ear pro in an indoor environment with no carpet and the perfect material to bounce/intensify the sound and shock wave of the rounds without being completely disoriented or even blacking out. I really don't think adrenaline is enough to overcome this, it just seems physically impossible to me. Also the coroner's report stating that many of the rounds went through 3-4 kids without stopping, we all know that especially at that close of a range the rounds will fragment and generally not cause full penetration on one body nevertheless 3 or 4. There's just so many things that don't add up with the official story.

 

[mountainpharm]

Back to the topic of Lanza though one thing that has baffled me since day one. How in the hell do you dump over a hundred rounds of 5.56 with no ear pro in an indoor environment with no carpet and the perfect material to bounce/intensify the sound and shock wave of the rounds without being completely disoriented or even blacking out.

Page 22 of the full report:

"Responding police officers found the shooter in classroom 10 northwest of the hallway entrance dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. He was wearing a pale green pocket vest over a black polo style short sleeve shirt over a black t-shirt. He had yellow colored earplugs in each ear. He was wearing black cargo pocket pants, black socks, black sneakers, a black canvas belt and black fingerless gloves on each hand. He had an empty camouflage drop holster that was affixed to his right thigh."

 

[JohnBT]

""Four out of five family doctors admitted over-prescribing Prozac and similar drugs for those suffering from depression and anxiety.""

The Daily Mail isn't a good source, even among all the crappy British newspapers. But I read the article.

The point of the article is that the Brit docs are lobbying for more counseling and therapy and "social care" for their patients. But until that happens, they claim they have to rely on prescribing meds.

Seems reasonable to work with what you have available and give Prozac to people "suffering from depression and anxiety." It actually works for a lot of people. And there certainly isn't money in the budget for everything, whether it's therapy, free rent or patching all the potholes.

 

[JohnBT]

Let's look at the size of the situation. There are an estimated 1 to 1.5 million in the U.S. with Autism Spectrum Disorders.

www.autism-society.org › About Autism‎

"1 percent of the population of children in the U.S. ages 3-17 have an autism spectrum disorder.1; Prevalence is estimated at 1 in 88 births.2; 1 to 1.5 million..."
__________

There were 2.5 million Prozac prescriptions written in 1988, and that was the first year for it.

www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/magazine/the-science-and-history-of-treating-depression.html?_r=0

"In 1988, a year after the Food and Drug Administration approved Prozac, 2,469,000 prescriptions for it were dispensed in America. By 2002, that number had risen to 33,320,000. "
__________

Approximately 3.3 million people in the U.S. have OCD.

http://understanding_ocd.tripod.com/ocd_facts_statistics.html

"Some Facts& Statistics about OCD. ... In the U.S., approximately 3.3 million people have OCD, of which you have 0.3 to 1% of pediatric population and 2% of ..."

___________

The millions of Americans included in the numbers posted above haven't been causing any more front-page problems than any of the rest of us.

Have some people had bad reactions to drugs? Sure. All sorts of drugs too, read the insert that comes with your next prescription. But I'm not seeing the facts to support the claims that mental patients need to be locked up, forced to take meds (or not allowed to take meds), or even feared. The numbers just don't support it.

 

[jrdolall]

Doctors will write a scrip for Prozac, Xanax, and any other "mood altering" drug with virtually no valid reason to do so. I know many, many people that have wound up on this stuff because they felt less than wonderful. My deceased wife, my brother. My sister-in-law. All of them had several different scrips over the years and none of them were what I think of as depressed. Sometimes they just didn't feel good. Heck there are plenty of days that I don't feel good.

Almost a year after my wife died I took my son to a doctor for some symptoms and he was prescribed a drug for depression. I agreed because I have known the doctor for literally 40 years and I had seen the change in my son since the death of his mother. I noticed a marked improvement in his mood and his interactions within two weeks of taking the drug so I know these drugs can work. He took the drug, Celaxa?, for 6 months and then cut back until he no longer takes it.

His case was a causal depression rather than what this Lanza kid apparently suffered so the similarities are minor. The point is that as long as people want these drugs then doctors will prescribe them.

 

[HexHead]

I am old enough to remember when kids didn't have ADD, ADHD, OCD, or any other abbreviated and perceived ill, they were just annoying little S***s
None were prescribed drugs and all eventually grew up to become, somewhat at least, productive members of society without ever having dropped the hammer on some innocent,,,

They didn't need Ritalin or the other drugs being handed out like candy now. Just a good, swift kick in the ass.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

They didn't need Ritalin or the other drugs being handed out like candy now. Just a good, swift kick in the ass.

That must be it. Physical violence solves all familial problems.

 

[Cee Zee]

The Daily Mail isn't a good source, even among all the crappy British newspapers. But I read the article.

That was just the first link that came up when I did the search. I've seen lots of news coverage of the problem of over prescribed drugs like Prozac. Maybe that paper isn't the best but I know the problem is real. When a doctor takes one look at you and says you need Prozac or they just write you prescription without even asking you about depression or anxiety then something is bad wrong. Everyone has anxiety but everyone doesn't need some mind numbing drug to block it out. Anxiety is given to us for a reason. It motivates to fix things that are wrong. It makes us push to get ahead so we don't have to worry about things. There's no way that doctors aren't over prescribing those drugs. Ask one of the millions of people who are on the stuff and can't get off of it. Yes it is a horrible experience to try to quit taking that stuff. It makes you 10 times more depressed than you were before.

And getting back to the thread here, those drugs cause a certain percentage of teens to go nuts. They do horrible and violent things they would never have done normally. Many people think those drugs are a big reason for the school shootings and that the information has been covered up. I'm not much for conspiracy theories but I have seen the info come out that many of those kids were on Prozac type drugs and the info came out much later than the mention of the connection to video games and other such stuff.

So if you don't like my link let's try another one:

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/08/08/antidepressants-overprescribed-in-primary-care/

There they said:

"In the 12-year period leading up to 2007, almost 1 in 10 visits to primary care physicians (9.3%), resulted in the patient coming away with a prescription for an antidepressant, the study found. But in only 44% of such cases did the doctor make a formal diagnosis of major depression or anxiety disorder."

If that one isn't good enough how about stuff from the American Psychological Association:

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/06/prescribing.aspx

Here are some of the things they reported:

"The use of psychotropic drugs by adult Americans increased 22 percent from 2001 to 2010, with one in five adults now taking at least one psychotropic medication, according to industry data."

"There is a huge financial incentive for psychiatrists to prescribe instead of doing psychotherapy"... "You can make two, three, four times as much money being a prescriber than a therapist."

I can find hundreds of these and they are not all from the Daily Mail. These things are pretty much common knowledge now. An read this from this FDA web page:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm088999.pdf

"PROZAC and other antidepressant medicines may increase suicidal thoughts or actions in some children, teenagers, or young adults within the first few months of treatment or when the dose is changed."

and

"Call your healthcare provider right away if you have any of the following symptoms, or call 911 if an emergency, especially if they are new, worse, or worry you:
• attempts to commit suicide
• acting on dangerous impulses
• acting aggressive or violent"

Again that's the FDA saying that. Maybe the Daily Mail isn't reliable but the FDA is.

 

[Mk VII]

The real bottom line in the NewTown report is that they don't know what caused it, and that the professional shrinks say they never saw it coming. That is the sort of analysis that fairly begs for a "disarm everybody" response by today's state, since they feel utterly powerless to come up with any other action

That's pretty much what they came up with here. All the tweaks to the system of gun control had already been done.

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

Page 22 of the full report:

"Responding police officers found the shooter in classroom 10 northwest of the hallway entrance dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. He was wearing a pale green pocket vest over a black polo style short sleeve shirt over a black t-shirt. He had yellow colored earplugs in each ear. He was wearing black cargo pocket pants, black socks, black sneakers, a black canvas belt and black fingerless gloves on each hand. He had an empty camouflage drop holster that was affixed to his right thigh."

Odd, I could have sworn there were reports that he had no ear pro, although I doubt it will be easy to sift that out in a google search a year down the road. Even so, from my experience with those cheap foam plugs in an indoor range they don't help a ton with the bouncing concussion blast. Perhaps adrenaline is enough to overcome this.