Savage Axis misfire

[DLrocket89]

Hi everyone,

My girlfriend is deer hunting this morning and had a misfire. She has a Savage Axis in 243 with a Timney trigger I put in it.

The gun went click like normal and the primer has a tiny tiny little indent on it, but not large enough that I'd expect the primer to fire. I took the bolt out and manually actuated the firing pin with my thumb and the firing pin protrudes adequately from the bolt face.

This gun has 200+ rounds down the barrel by my girlfriend and 500+ from me working up handloads. This is the first malfunction.

Anyone has any ideas what would cause a crazy light strike in an Axis? That has been 100% reliable till now?

Last time it was shot was 2 weekends ago as a final sight in and function check. 5 shots into a dime at 50 yards with no issues. Ammo used is the same lot I made that put 5 into a dime. No idea....

 

[berettaprofessor]

A little more info please; handloads or commercial ammo? Did you try rechambering the round and shooting it again and did it fire? What do you use for cleaning and lube (gunking up)? How many rounds approximately through the rifle (wondering about spring life)?

Try taking the bolt apart and cleaning the firing pin and channel; perhaps it's getting some dried lube and slowing it down?

 

[243winxb]

My 223 axis misfire was a defect in a CCI 400 primer. Primer fired on the 4th firing pin strike.

Old oil in the firing pin channel may slow the firing pin velocity. More so in very cold weather. Clean bolt.

Pull the bullet on your round, check for powder. Try firing the primer a few more times.

When the firing pin hits the primer, the cartridge moves forward till its stopped by the case shoulder or the extractor. This may absorb some of the force from the firing pin. The head to datum measurement will get smaller if the round does not fire. (223).

Always good to fl size with the minimum shoulder bump to lesson head clearance of the chambered rounds.

 

[DLrocket89]

Thanks for the replies. Going to answer question plus share some more trouble shooting. But first, the important part, another doe came out...gun misfired again, so my girlfriend racked a new one, pulled and it went off. 150 yards through the heart, doe dropped where it stood. So, in the end, all is well.

Onto the questions and the gun:

Handloads. This was the 5th firing for this brass. I loaded up 50 rounds with the same load...30 rounds worked perfect for final sight in, saved the last 20 for hunting. Hornady brass, CCI 200s, Reloder19. For this gun, I full length size, using Hornady shoulder gauge to just bump the should .002" from as-fired condition.

Haven't had the bolt apart before on this gun. Bolt as oiled probably a year ago, can't recall what with though.

Firing pin left the lightest of indents (see pic). The first round that misfired was the round that eventually went off with a very strong/normal firing pin strike.

Since then, I've disassembled the entire trigger mechanism and put it back together and its fine. The firing pin protrudes as expected from the bolt face.

At this point in time, I'm thinking there's something wrong with the bolt, either something that's slowing the firing pin (too much lube) or something blocking the firing pin (loose piece of debris inside). I have to get the bolt home so I can get it in my vice to break the nut on the back of the bolt open, so it'll be awhile yet.

Any thoughts given the picture?

EDIT: only difference between sight in and today is its about 30 degrees cooler out.

 

[boom boom]

Most likely unless you are having other problems (indicating cartridge headspace problems), or your cartridge reloading is not up to snuff (checked with a SAAMI std. chamber checker), is within the bolt.

Something may be slowing or hanging the firing pin in the bolt channel enough to cause the light strike--could be crud inside the bolt, could be a spring problem, could be lube congealing, or you could have some sort of burr in the firing pin channel. Dissasemble the bolt, use brass wire brushes for tubes with long handles (can buy cheap sets from harbor freight and the like) or get it at ace etc, thoroughly scrub the bolt and channel with mineral spirits at least. Take long cotton swabs and then rub down the channel--do it gently and you can feel burrs if the swab tip hangs. Steel picks also work if you are careful. If there is a problem with the spring (sometimes a spring will deform and bunch up in an S especially if it is too long) or even break if improperly heat treated. Occasionally firing pins also can break or chip especially if you do a lot of dry firing. Also polish the firing pin when out if needed and check it for burrs especially near the tip--a hillybilly lathe can be set up for polish a firing pin with a cordless drill and the firing pin in the chuck. Turn and polish with steel wool or fine grade emery cloth--be sure to remove the grit from the pin after.

 

[homers]

what was the temperature during the misfire?

 

[243winxb]

something blocking the firing pin

or broken. Spring dragging on the bolt body?

 

[DLrocket89]

Boom boom - thanks for the detail, will get to that and report back

Homers - Temp was about 15-20F

243 - I thought the exact same thing after the first mis-firing. So, after the first firing I checked the back of the bolt and the back of the firing pin was sticking out, so it was cocked. That plus the primer did have a tiny little mark on it, so I'm pretty sure the firing pin is intact at least.

 

[Stevenvalleyky]

I've had similar issues before with a Ruger American. Bought it new in August, fired a couple 100 rounds before deer gun season started in mid Nov. Get in the stand on a very cold morning (15°F) and end up with a very nice buck broadside at 30 yards. Pull the trigger and the same thing happened. Turns out that Ruger used a grease that's a little on the thick side and that coupled with the cold was enough to slow down the firing pin to the point that it didn't hit hard enough to fire off a round. Took it home, took bolt apart (getting it back together is whole nother story) cleaned the grease out and oiled the bolt and have had no problems since. I have shot it when it was that cold multiple times since with no more misfires.
There is also a thread in the handloading section that's something along the lines of "found out about my duds" or something like that. Turns out the guy wasn't getting all of his primers fully seated so they weren't going off. Just something else to look at if your primers aren't below flush with the case head. Hope you get it figured out.

 

[entropy]

Probably a combination of things. Follow 243winxb's advice in post #3, that should solve your problems.

 

[Skylerbone]

Turns out the guy wasn't getting all of his primers fully seated so they weren't going off.

This would be my first guess, when it comes to handloading. The one step my dad waited to teach me was priming and while I have confidence in my consistency these days I still check rounds with the Wilson gage.

I've never seen it up close but have seen pictures of strikes on high primers and they look like your picture.

 

[homers]

probably thickened oil/lube at that temp. Used to see this quite a bit in the UP when temps get below freezing. Hunters cleaning and over oiling prior to hunting season.

 

[DLrocket89]

Referencing non-fully seated primers... You mean like it's not seated all the way in, so that the firing pin moves the primer in further and it never actually dents the primer? The primers look like all the others in the batch. I hand seat them and I think I have a good "feel" for it. Not trying to say "people suggesting my technique is bad must be wrong because I'm the best!!", Just that these have been like the other 1200 rifle rounds I've loaded this year, and theyve all gone boom. I press them in till I can feel the anvil bottom and then seat them fully after that.

What dimension should I be measuring here to check this? Depth of primer recess in the pocket? Wont be home to check it for a week, but will do.

 

[Skylerbone]

Sounds like you probably have priming covered and yes, I meant that as a general statement in my previous post. I'll concur then with gunk/lube as next likely, then spring. If you don't have immediate access to tools to disassemble your bolt then Zippo fluid can be used for a quick flush in the meantime.

 

[DLrocket89]

Skylerbone - sounds good, thanks for the thoughts. My girlfriend is done for the season, so I'm going to wait till I get back home (next Sunday) to take the bolt apart.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, as always everyone on THR is helpful!

 

[243winxb]

Intermittent firing pin strikes. Seen 2.

A burr in the firing pin channel. High Standard 22 pistol. Worked 100% if fired up side down.

The spring wore a groove in the channel. As the spring moved forward, it stuck in the groove. Mossberg 22.

 

[JeffG]

Old oil in the firing pin channel may slow the firing pin velocity. More so in very cold weather. Clean bolt.

+1

 

[Axis II]

for what this is worth. My axis II 223rem HB had an issue where it wasn't extracting, ejecting and sometimes the bolt would get locked and wouldn't open even with a live round so I sent it to savage after having a gunsmith look at it and they said the whole bolt face needed replacing and I've never had an issue. while this isn't your problem the bolt was bad so you might have a bolt issue or your moving the shoulder back too much and the case is sliding too far away not giving it a full strike. 5th firing I would clean the primer pockets as I notice mine get quite dirty and I clean them so seating is more uniform. to check for primers fully seated I just rub my finger over them and feel for a dip where they are below flush of the brass pocket or you can use calipers and open them up and use the little stem that protrudes out of the bottom and put the stem on the primer and lightly push and read the caliper reading. I cant remember off hand but I think its supposed to be 6k below flush.

 

[hps1]

Hi everyone,

My girlfriend is deer hunting this morning and had a misfire. She has a Savage Axis in 243 with a Timney trigger I put in it.

The gun went click like normal and the primer has a tiny tiny little indent on it, but not large enough that I'd expect the primer to fire. I took the bolt out and manually actuated the firing pin with my thumb and the firing pin protrudes adequately from the bolt face.

This gun has 200+ rounds down the barrel by my girlfriend and 500+ from me working up handloads. This is the first malfunction.

Anyone has any ideas what would cause a crazy light strike in an Axis? That has been 100% reliable till now?

Last time it was shot was 2 weekends ago as a final sight in and function check. 5 shots into a dime at 50 yards with no issues. Ammo used is the same lot I made that put 5 into a dime. No idea....

Surprised no one has asked if it is possible she didn't have the bolt completely closed?
If she was sitting with the safety off and bumped the bolt so as it was not in battery, the gun will not fire, but if close to being in battery, the bolt can close as trigger pulled resulting in light firing pin strike.

The second time it misfired, she reloaded and it fired just fine.....could be due to her slamming bolt home as she chambered the 2nd round.

I'd take it to the range and fire a few rounds to check out this possibility.

Regards,
hps

 

[DLrocket89]

hps1 - That's an idea that I never considered. I don't THINK it would be an issue, but it's entirely possible. I'll see if I can replicate it.

Thanks again everyone!

Dustin

 

[hps1]

Hope it turns out to be this simple, Dustin. Good luck, & let us know what you figure out.

Regards,
hps