I like to create a sawed off shotgun, a couchman, to use in my wild west shows. I know that there is a tax that needs to be paid, about $200, that you have to pay on the finished product. My question is do I have to go to an official licensed gun smith or can my friend, who is a hobby level gunsmith, do the work after the tax is paid on the receiver? If I do have to go to a gun smith does he need to be a NFA manufacturer. Where do I go to pay the wonderful tax on it .
Sawed off shotguns
- Thread starter shady280
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csmkersh
Member
Why cut a barrel when there are lots of legal length coach guns to be bought without the AFT "tax" and paperwork? Any particular reason you want a barrel shorter than 18 inches?
Milkmaster
Member
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Which state are you in? A short-barreled shotgun (SBS) isn't legal in all states.
Do you do a lot of interstate travel for your wild west shows? You need an approved Application to Transport Interstate to move a SBS across state lines.
I don't know if it is legal for an "unlicensed gunsmith" to do the work or not. You can legally do it yourself though.
No, but many licensed gunsmiths won't touch a NFA weapon.
You can get everything you need here and here.
You will need 2 Form 5320.1s with passport photos and CLEO signatures, one Form 5330.20, two FD-258LE fingerprint cards, and a check for $200.
You will also need to engrave your name, city and state (or recognized abbreviations thereof) on the frame, receiver or barrel.
Okiecruffler
Member
I've seen a few guys here who do cowboy gunfight reenactments. A couple have doubles with <18" barrels and one fella has a sawed off pistol rig with about 6 inch barrels. I always wondered if they all paid the tax or if they are just playing under the radar. Could be they are blank firing only replicas I suppose, but they sure look real.
Chipperman
Member
So I guess that's a form of Russian Roulette, only with shotguns.
MICHAEL T
Member
I have a real coach gun from 1880's and barrels are 21" made by Colt
CZ makes a great coach gun little expensive but nice.
I have a Rossi from early 70's
Their are lots of nice coach guns out their with out all the paper work BS
CZ makes a great coach gun little expensive but nice.
I have a Rossi from early 70's
Their are lots of nice coach guns out their with out all the paper work BS
bannockburn
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shady280
I personally could not be bothered with all the ensuing hassle and bureaucracy for the sake of a few inches on a coachman style shotgun. It's your money, time, and effort, but to me it would not be worth it. Keep them at 18+" and you'll be way ahead of the game.
I personally could not be bothered with all the ensuing hassle and bureaucracy for the sake of a few inches on a coachman style shotgun. It's your money, time, and effort, but to me it would not be worth it. Keep them at 18+" and you'll be way ahead of the game.
The reasoning for chopping the shotgun is I'm trying to reproduce one that was used in a TV show. The show was "The Adventures of Brisco County Jr" and the character was named Bowler, He was brisco's reluctant sidekick. He had a coachman that was chopped to a hand gun size. Also mel gibson used one in Mad Max I believe. Wanted something out of the ordinary. The barrel on the shotgun I want to use is 20" and I want to chop it down to about 11 1/2 then cut the stock down to be only a hand grip. This pic is what I want:
Okiecruffler
Member
Don't forget one of the best movies of all time, El Dorado.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
You should shoot one sometime with real 12 ga. shotgun ammo in it.
You would quickly see the magic of television!
Those blanks make it look like something you should have.
rcmodel
You would quickly see the magic of television!
Those blanks make it look like something you should have.
rcmodel
I have a hammerless Stoeger Uplander in 12ga cut as you describe. Total cost for me was about $550, tax and all, but I do my own gunsmithing regularly so I had the tools and supplies. It's not much but a range toy, these days. I'm keeping it because I'd have to sell it for cheap to have any buyers, and since I could only get perhaps $250 from it, I might as well just leave it in the safe.
give
Member
cool looking piece,a guy i grew up with,his dad had a singel shot ,but was made like that,think the over all length was about 16 inches,we fired it once,and remember i was like 13 ,and i thought i broke my wrist,lol,kicked like a mule,but i think that would be a great hd gun
maroast
Member
Here is a great thread thats should give you all the info need for this potential endeavor.....I plan on making a SBS once I get my Saiga-12 (got one on backorder!)
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=80131
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=80131
Joe the Redneck
Member
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- 249
Or you could just use a muzzle loader shotgun and save the leagal garbage. Just make combustable paper cartridges and you should be all set.
Just a thought.
JTR
Just a thought.
JTR
plexreticle
Member
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Shoot it once and wish it was full length again.
why could you take a normal gun... and make it none functional... say like welding some type of restriction device in the barrel? then register it destroyed with the ATF... seems like it would be alot less of a hassle to do that then it would to actually go thru the NFA process. On the plus side you could buy some old beater gun that was no longer a safe firearm( say big dents in the barrel or a rib has come lose) and covert that.
AFAIK, once a gun is a gun, the only way to make it not be a gun is to torch cut the reciever.
That would make it pretty useless as a prop gun.
I don't know if this would be an option or not, but I don't think that blackpowder guns are under the same restrictions.
IIRC, to the ATF, a blackpowder gun isn't a gun to begin with because it doesn't use fixed ammuntion.
As for the idea of hacking a shotgun off, I also don't think it would be useful for anything other than screwing off at the range or the historical reenacting with blanks that the OP mentioned.
My 18" IC barrel has more spread than I'd like with most brands of buckshot. I'd think that a barrel much shorter than that without a choke would be just about useless.
That would make it pretty useless as a prop gun.
I don't know if this would be an option or not, but I don't think that blackpowder guns are under the same restrictions.
IIRC, to the ATF, a blackpowder gun isn't a gun to begin with because it doesn't use fixed ammuntion.
As for the idea of hacking a shotgun off, I also don't think it would be useful for anything other than screwing off at the range or the historical reenacting with blanks that the OP mentioned.
My 18" IC barrel has more spread than I'd like with most brands of buckshot. I'd think that a barrel much shorter than that without a choke would be just about useless.
Or you could just use a muzzle loader shotgun and save the leagal garbage. Just make combustable paper cartridges and you should be all set.
I've never researched this. Is this true? No paperwork or tax required on a muzzleloading shotgun less than 18"?
jm
I've never researched this. Is this true? No paperwork or tax required on a muzzleloading shotgun less than 18"?
jm
Too expensive but I'm glad to know bp shotguns are exemt from this, I've never got a straight answer on this. I live in CA though and I'm not sure if I can own such a thing
Even here though BP isn't very regulated. I should buy a cheap BP shotgun and saw it down myself if it is indeed legal.
Even here though BP isn't very regulated. I should buy a cheap BP shotgun and saw it down myself if it is indeed legal.
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