Sawed off shotguns

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The Pedersoli piece doe not address the legality of cutting a black powder shotgun down to size. It was built that way from the start and not modified. The same as the new "Mare's legs" are built from an unbarreled receiver.

I think you would be okay but considering the consequences, I would research this a lot before I acted.

It is a good idea and historically accurate for tiger hunting and the old west.
 
It was built that way from the start and not modified. The same as the new "Mare's legs" are built from an unbarreled receiver.
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Sort of, but you're mixing "antique/muzzleloading" guns with "cartridge" guns.

Muzzleloaders are exempt from Federal laws. State laws may vary, but federally it is legal to cut down muzzleloaders of any description - as long as they're truly muzzleloaders.
 
I believe that if the gun was manufactured as a short barrelled shotgun and not sawed off, the tax is only $5 instead of $200. Same 4 month paperwork though.
 
Non-SOTs pay $200 to make a "short-barreled shotgun" (SBS) or "any other weapon" (AOW). The transfer tax is $200 for a SBS, $5 for an AOW.

There is a pretty good rundown on the difference between a SBS and an AOW in chapter 2 of the ATF NFA Handbook.
 
wdlsguy

I'm glad I'm not the only one that knows anything about NFA items. It gets tiring, repeating myself that "no, short shotguns aren't illegal".
 
I've been wondering about the legality of making a SBS out of an antique (pre 1899) shotgun.

IIRC the only NFA classification that can apply to antiques is that they can be a Machine gun.

Is it ok to chop down one? are they exempt from federal taxation/classification?
 
I've been wondering about the legality of making a SBS out of an antique (pre 1899) shotgun.

IIRC the only NFA classification that can apply to antiques is that they can be a Machine gun.

Is it ok to chop down one? are they exempt from federal taxation/classification?
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The only way for that to be legal is if it had be cut down before 1898. Cutting it down now requires a $200 tax stamp, same as a modern gun.

There are old guns that fall under NFA classifications but are exempt because of age and they were made that way, such as pre-1898 14" barreled lever action rifles.

So, basically, NO, you can't cut up an antique cartridge shotgun now and have it be legal unless you pay the tax.
 
what about actual antique sawed off guns? I've seen a few in museums (mostly set up as tripwire sprung guns) so I know they are out there somewhere.

Does it have to have been originally manufactured as a SBS or could it have been cut down short back in the day?

if it was an original SBS gun (say with 17 inch barrels) would it be ok to trim it down to 6 or 8?
 
That's a gray area. Call the NFA tech branch and ask to speak with an examiner. :)
 
Hmmm... dubious question here.

Puts on "Wild West Shows" and doesn't know the correct nomenclature of a Coach gun. A couchman... please! :rolleyes:
 
Looks like a simple enough typo to me. And the question is legit, no matter how many people like to chime in to tell someone they don't need what they want.
 
shady280,
Find yourself a good hammer gun, follow the proper legal steps and build one yourself. Nevermind those that say you don't want or need a short shotgun. I'd say sissies need not apply, but seriously, recoil is managable and to me actually feels less than a full length shotgun. I enjoy the heck out of the guns I've built, and I always have one with me when I go out shooting. You'll have no regrets whether you use it for the range or your cowboy show. With some patience, you can make them look like works of art. Here are some that I've done up.
 

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Punisher - nice looking guns you have there. I especially like the hammer gun in the middle.
 
If it is a traveling show NFA items might be more trouble than you are aware of. You do not simply pay the fees and have your gun. Many states more severely restrict them or outlaw them, and you have to request federal permission in advance just to legaly transport them across state lines each and every time.

Some states make no distinction between muzzle loaders and smokeless cartridge firearms in the law. A law regarding shotguns is a law regarding shotguns. Others have less than the federal restrictions, and the feds don't consider non cartridge black powder weapons firearms so NFA laws do not apply to them.
Some states mirror NFA laws, and if the state makes no distinction between muzzleloaders and cartridge arms in various laws then they apply to all types.

NFA items can be a hassle, especialy if you travel. Even some states that allow NFA items can have restrictions that apply to all arms limiting the variety of NFA items.
 
Lets see, $150 for an old shotgun, $200 for the tax stamp, $100 to have it cut down and a 4 month wait, I think the Howdah double pistol is a deal. There are makes other than Pedersoli which are cheaper.

If you're going to cut down a shotgun the ribs may need to be resoldered.
 
PTK, an antique made before 1899 is not legally a firearm. It is not federally controlled and can be shipped to anybody just like black powder muzzle loaders. As that is the case, and as you can be just hunky-dory cutting down modern muzzle loaders, why would cutting down an antique be any different, since it is already by law not a firearm?

Ash
 
Ash, it's because the NFA uses a different definition of "antique" than the GCA does:

(g) Antique firearm

The term “antique firearm” means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

26 USC 5845
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Not to mention, simpler to load/shoot/clean. It's why I went with cartridge guns, even though waiting a few months was annoying.
 
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