SBR Build Engraving???

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

radjames

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
2
Im in the process of filling out the good ole form 1. Im suppling all current markings and serial numbers on the AR Receiver. Im doing a little reading and will be calling the proper authorities on Monday, but, whats the deal? I have been seeing where guys are talking about getting their receivers engraved???
Is this neccessary?
 
The maker's name, city and state (or recognized abbreviations thereof) needs to be engraved on the frame, receiver, or barrel.

27 CFR 479.102
 
So, as in "maker" are we talking about the name and address of the manufacturer of the lower receiver that I put on the application?
 
Are you all sure about this? I have heard (I think it was on akforum.net) that there is a way to legally SBR without having the weapon engraved. I will have to go check over there, no time tonight though, gotta try and get some sleep.
 
I have heard ... that there is a way to legally SBR without having the weapon engraved.
Click to expand...
If you buy a "factory" SBR (registered as an SBR by the original manufacturer), the original manufacturer's engraving is sufficient.

If a maker other than the original manufacturer registers an SBR, additional engraving is required.
 
I just engraved my three initials and city and state (x.x.x. city, state)

flag2442
 
I own a registered SBR, made by me. The only engraving on the lower receiver is by bushmaster. My paperwork was approved.

I converted a Carbon 15 type 97s to a SBR by adding a Carbon 15 pistol upper the the rifle lower receiver.
 
Please read defination h on the ATF form 1. You are not required to engrave the lower reciever if you are converting an exhisting firearm to an NFA weapon. The receiver itself is the firearm.
 
Section H applies to the information you put on the form. If you dont engrave your SBR, the F1 will match because it still says Colt or Bushmaster, or whatever. But if you ever transfer it to someone else, the F4 will say YOU as the manufacturer, not Colt or Bushmaster, and then the F4 wont match the gun. Trust me, I have been down that path. Stamp your junk on it somewhere.
 
You are not required to engrave the lower reciever if you are converting an exhisting firearm to an NFA weapon.
Click to expand...

6.2.1 Description of firearm.
...
The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model, and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon.96 The marking and identification requirements for a maker are the same as for a manufacturer. Refer to section 7.4 for a detailed discussion of the requirements.

ATF National Firearms Act Handbook
Click to expand...

7.4.2 Additional information. Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

(1) The model, if such designation has been made;

(2) The caliber or gauge;

(3) The manufacturer’s name (or recognized abbreviation); and

(4) The city and State (or recognized abbreviation) where the manufacturer maintains its place of business.122

ATF National Firearms Act Handbook
Click to expand...
 
Engraving the maker's name, city and state isn't just a good idea, it's the law:

Each manufacturer and importer and anyone making a firearm shall identify each firearm, other than a destructive device, manufactured, imported, or made by a serial number which may not be readily removed, obliterated, or altered, the name of the manufacturer, importer, or maker, and such other identification as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe.

26 USC 5842(a)
Click to expand...
 
SERIAL NUMBERS AND OTHER MARKINGS. If an existing firearm is being modified into an NFA firearm, enter the existing serial number of the firearm into item 4g and the name and address of the original manufacturer into item 4a. DO NOT ALTER OR MODIFY THE EXISTING SERIAL NUMBER. If the NFA firearm is being made from parts, your name and address are to be entered into 4a and a serial number you create is to be entered into item 4g.

These are the instructions I followed on the form 1 when I made an SBR.
As a result, I was approved and received my tax stamp. I will never sell my SBR. I may sell the lower receiver (although I highly doubt it) after contacting the ATF and having the serial number removed from the SBR list and voided as an SBR.

At this point, I am in complete compliance with the law.

Furthermore, there is no point in using a form 4 to transfer an SBR! The person who is buying your SBR will still need to fill out all the paperwork and pay $200.00. Why not VOID the serial number, sell them the unregistered lower receiver, have them fill out a form 1, and when complete, give them the upper? I don't want some lower receiver floating around with my name and address on it, that could someday - 20 years from now be used in a crime! Who knows what kind of judges we'll have then.
 
I may sell the lower receiver (although I highly doubt it) after contacting the ATF and having the serial number removed from the SBR list and voided as an SBR.
Click to expand...

I thought once and NFA, always an NFA. And the purpose of getting removed from the registration list was for a destroyed NFA item?
 
At this point, I am in complete compliance with the law.
Click to expand...

I don't think so. If you converted a non NFA item into an NFA item you are by definition the "Maker" and as such your name and location must be engraved on the NFA item.
 
Section 4a of ATF form 1 states:

NAME AND LOCATION OF ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER OF FIREARM (RECEIVER) (If prototype,furnish plans and specifications) (See Instruction2h)

In my case, this was Bushmaster Firearms.

Section 2h states (important stuff highlighted):

h. SERIAL NUMBERS AND OTHER MARKINGS. If an existing firearm is being modified into an NFA firearm, enter the existing serial number of the firearm into item 4g and the name and addressof the original manufacturer into item 4a.DO NOT ALTER OR MODIFY THE EXISTING SERIAL NUMBER. If the NFA firearm is being made from parts, your name and address are to be entered into 4a and a serial number you create is to be entered into item 4g.

So, if I create a SBR from a blank receiver, or I machine my own reciever from a block of aluminum, then I am the original manufacturer and must engrave my name and my own made up serial number.

NO WHERE ON THE FORM 1 DOES IT SAY TO ENGRAVE YOUR NAME AND NEW SERIAL NUMBER OVER THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER'S NAME AND SERIAL NUMBER. Unless of course YOU ARE THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER, because you made the receiver from scratch.
 
No one ever said you were making your own serial number. You are required to use the original one because its illegal to remove or alter it.

And YOU are still the maker of the Title 2 gun. Bushmaster only made a Title 1 gun. I guarantee you if you call the NFA branch, and ask who the Manufacturer of serial # 38472387(blah-blah) is, they will say YOU. And thus your requirement to comply with 26 USC 5842(a).

It would be like importing a Mosin Nagant and not engraving it. Same deal, you are the maker.
 
I am not talking about what the Form 1 says but what the law/regulation says.
As I read it:
Converting from non NFA to NFA is concidered making by the fed. The person doing the work is the maker. If you are making from an existing item, yeah you don't need a new/second serial number but as the manufacturer you are required to mark it.

I am not trying to start an argument, but I believe you are incorrect and if someone was to follow your advice and it is indeed incorrect they can land in prison.

Pete
 
On the form 1, you are required to: "Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm".

This means EVERYTHING engraved on the receiver.

On my form 1, I indicated Bushmaster Firearms, their address, caliber, and serial number. I did not include my name! If my name had been required, my form 1 would have been rejected.

I've handled, seen, fired, plenty of converted NFA firearms- none had additional engraving.

I sleep well at night, secure in the knowledge that I have an ATF approved form 1 with a tax stamp attached, located in the rifle at all times, and the information on the form matches PERFECTLY with the SBR in my possession.
 
cchurchi:
The ATF changes their view on this on a rather often basis. Their current opinion is whoever submitted the Form 1 must have their name, city & state marked on the weapon. Postal abbreviations are ok, but I wouldnt go to the extreme of only putting my initials on it (at least, I'd do first & middle initials and full last name).

Kharn
 
I completed my SBR last fall with no problems - I clearly stated DPMS Panther Arms under 'Name and Location of Original Manufacturer of Firearm (receiver)'. There is no need to engrave your receiver when the manufacturer has already stamped it.
 
Last edited:
There is no need to engrave your receiver.
Click to expand...
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
National Firearms Act Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, WV 25405
304-616-4500
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Styx
Engraving
Replies
19
Views
606
MachIVshooter
MachIVshooter
T
  • Locked
Engraving question for SBR.
Replies
13
Views
2K
cottonmouth
C
1
  • Locked
Making an SBR at 18
Replies
11
Views
2K
Arizona_Mike
A
R
  • Locked
Leupold Warning
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
scubie02
S
J
  • Locked
my new AK build thread
Replies
0
Views
393
jason41987
J
Back
Top