SBS on what platform?

[bkjeffrey]

Ive got to do it, I need an SBS. I have two remington 870s to sacrifice between and I dont know wich one to build. The first one is a 870 Express
Magnum and the other is a Wingmaster. I do not know the age of either one. I know that all the parts inside the recievers are replaceable so wear doesnt really matter, but once I get that thing engraved Im stuck with it forever, so which one should I put on a F1?

Or.......do I buy a Saiga 12, and SBS that thing?

Thanks yall.

Im going for something like one of these.

 

[Daniel B]

Its easy. Do both.

What condition is the Wingmaster in? Without any other info I'd say do the Express model.

My SBS is at the gunsmith getting refinished as we speak. I built it on a Police Magnum that had seen better days.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I'd go with the express. You are pretty much going to destroy any original value the shotgun would have had so use the cheaper parkerized one.
OTOH chopped down Saiga 12's are extremely sexy so, to quote Ferris Beuller: "if you have the means I highly recommend picking one up"

 

[bkjeffrey]

Thanks Drew, you have a good point about losing value once engraved.

I would do the S12, but then it has to be PG converted, the gas system has to be shortened...blah blah blah. If I ever had to have work done to repair the gun at a gunsmith it would be a real PITA once it became an NFA item also. Lots of custom parts going into that conversion.

With the 870 Im sure the reciever will outlast me or any of my siblings. And anyone can replace any part in an 870 to make any repairs that may ever be necessary.

So, with that, 870 sbr inbound! Ill begin typing up a Form 1 tomorrow. Dont be surprised if I come here for assistance on that.

FWIW, my last F1 was less than 8 weeks turnaround door to door, lets hope I get that lucky again!

 

[Girodin]

The S12 takes much more work and know how to get a reliable SBS. The gas system needs to be shortened. The S12 SBS is also going to be considerably more expensive. That said, IMHO the Saiga will be the cooler gun with some notable advantages, including zero reduction in mag capacity. If some one was going to give me the one of my choosing it would be the S12 without hesitation.

If I ever had to have work done to repair the gun at a gunsmith it would be a real PITA once it became an NFA item also. Lots of custom parts going into that conversion.

I don't know that "lots" is really an apt description.

 

[bkjeffrey]

I don't know that "lots" is really an apt description

I really dont know what all is involved in shortening th operationg system of an S12 or converting it.

Believe me, if someone were to give me one of my choice it would be the S12 as well, but as you said, need a good bit of gunsmithing work to get done.

 

[PTK]

They both make great and fun SBSs, but I'd say go with the 870 first. It makes a great carry gun when hunting, at a 12" barrel. The Saiga is more of a range toy, even when shortened.

Oh, and use the 870 you like better. I only used an Express because it was the cheapest one in the shop and I knew what to look for/replace, and it still had a metal trigger guard.

 

[CleverNickname]

I have both an 870 SBS and a Tromix SBS. The 870 was easier and cheaper to get ($50 to a gunsmith to cut down the barrel and attach a new bead, then engraving and a Form 1). I had to wait forever for my number to come up with Tromix to get my Saiga converted and it cost a whole lot more. If I had to do it over again I wouldn't bother SBSing the 870. A short barrel means no mag extension, so it can only have 4 in the tube. And even with a 12" barrel it's still rather long unless you put a folding stock on it, and folding 870 stocks aren't near as comfortable to shoot as a fixed 870 stock. The Saiga keeps the same magazine capacity and a folder isn't much less comfortable than a fixed Saiga stock. Go with the Saiga.

 

[Girodin]

The Saiga is more of a range toy, even when shortened.

I'm curious to hear the rational behind a saiga (SBS or otherwise) being more of a range toy than a 12" 870.

 

[PTK]

I can conceal a SBS 870 under my coat, ready to fire. Try that with the Saiga, even with "only" a 5rd mag sticking out. That's my rationale, since I go for use first when thinking of practical applications of something.

In the inevitably discussed end of the world scenario, yes, a S12 would be great as long as you're not trying to conceal it or carry it handily.

 

[FastMover]

I am planning a SBS project out of a Browning A5. After I saw a member post a picture of one in the NFA photo thread I HAD to have one. When I get back from my vacation I'll post some pictures of my 870 shorty.

 

[Girodin]

I can conceal a SBS 870 under my coat, ready to fire. Try that with the Saiga, even with "only" a 5rd mag sticking out. That's my rationale, since I go for use first when thinking of practical applications of something.

So not fairing well in relation to one very specific task, carrying concealed under your coat means the saiga falls into range toy status? Well I was curious to know your rational and there is.

You'll forgive me if I am a bit incredulous that the above is the best measure of "range toy." Taken to its logical end things really start to get messy.

Again just curious, but have you actually tried to carry an 8" Saiga under your coat? How about an 8" with a side folder stock?

 

[PTK]

Yes, and yes, believe it or not.

And yeah, that's my measure of useful or not - if it can actually be around when one might need it.


I suppose the main confusion is that when most on here say range toy, they seem to mean that it doesn't work all the time, isn't worth owning, etc. That's certainly not what I meant.

 

[Girodin]

I suppose the main confusion is that when most on here say range toy, they seem to mean that it doesn't work all the time, isn't worth owning, etc. That's certainly not what I meant.

I take the term to mean something in that vein, more or less that a weapon is unfit for any other use than range use.

I appreciate your input and indulging my questions. Really, I was not taking issue with your experience that an 870 is easier to conceal or even that concealability is a factor worth considering. Rather I was trying to get to the heart of your point. Personally I find statements such as "its a range toy," "its a piece of crap," or "that's mall ninja gear
to be fairly unproductive to discussion for a reason your last point underscores, they are vague and do not really get to the heart of one's criticism or point.

To simply say, "a SBS 870 is in my experience more easily concealed" or, "I have found that I am able to conceal a SBS 870 but not a SBS saiga 12" is in my estimation much more beneficial to everyone. It makes clear what the issue really is and avoids confusion over amorphous terms. By nailing down concealability as an issue that issue can be evaluated as opposed to a bald back and forth over it being a range toy or not, when perhaps each person has a different conception of what that is and what would qualify it as such.

As to the issue of concealability I personally have never had occasion to need to conceal a shotgun. For others that might well be a primary factor.

 

[PTK]

No issues with what you've said there, in my estimation. I'm glad we cleared up the misunderstanding, as that's most certainly not what I meant by "range toy".

 

[TonyRumore]

I sold a six inch Saiga-12 to the owner of an Executive Protection Company a year or so ago. He told me he was carrying it under his suit jacket with a 5rd mag.

Pic - upper gun is a 6", lower gun is an 8".

Tony Rumore
Tromix

 

[hso]

Depends whether you wanna go "retro" or "tech" for looks. I personally like either, but would suggest trying the Saiga first since they can be a little more difficult to find and you already have the other guns to work with.

 

[bkjeffrey]

Every time I see a Saiga SBS I think I want one.

 

[PTK]

I sold a six inch Saiga-12 to the owner of an Executive Protection Company a year or so ago. He told me he was carrying it under his suit jacket with a 5rd mag.

Pic - upper gun is a 6", lower gun is an 8".

Tony Rumore
Tromix

Must be quite a suit jacket. Also, might you have a picture of one of those with a 5rd mag in place with or without a tape measure showing the height from the top of the receiver to the bottom of the mag? It would add quite a bit to the discussion.

 

[bkjeffrey]

TonyRumore, do those guns have enough meat in the barrel to thread for chokes? You know, to adjust fire as necessary? Or are they truly scatter guns?

Id like to see some shot patterns with buck at HD ranges, 25-45 feet.

 

[jerkface11]

If I was gonna shorten a Saiga I'd do a .308 not a shotgun.

 

[Gord]

I'd vote for the 870, simply because you'll be able to spring for the gun and the tax stamp on what you'd spend for the unconverted Saiga-12 alone (assuming you didn't already have two). Can always slap a PGO on if OAL is really a concern - it'd probably end up being about the same OAL as an underfolder AK.

Of course, if OAL or size in general is a concern you'd probably be better off SBSing a SxS or somesuch in the first place, or rethinking a shotgun for the role at all. They just are not very compact weapons...

 

[Vyacheslav]

I'm curious to hear the rational behind a saiga (SBS or otherwise) being more of a range toy than a 12" 870.

I turkey hunt with a saiga (non sbs) so i guess it's not just a range toy after all