SBS velocity loss / Saiga 12g.

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VorpalSpork

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Since shotguns are low pressure rounds, I wouldn't expect them to lose as much velocity from a short barrel as a higher pressure firearm, like a rifle for example. Is that a correct assumption? Can someone point me to some information that shows how velocity is effected by barrel length for short shotgun barrels?

I have a somewhat irrational desire for a 8”-10” Tromix Saiga 12g. and I'm trying to think of some good reasons I wouldn't want one. My list currently includes the high cost, and the problem with the box magazine deforming shells when left with the loaded magazine in the gun. Why else shouldn't I get one?
 
Shotguns do lose a lot of velocity when you get THAT short. If you search around, you can find sights explaning, and showing images of birdshot barely piercing skin with SBS's. Personally, if I were to get an SBS, I would keep it 14" and above, The only reason being velocity loss.
But I'm sure someone knows more on the subject than I do.
 
I was there when we chronographed shotshells from an 8" Saiga 12. Correia will have the exact numbers, but I think it lost about 300 feet per second over a standard 19" model.

Not enough to matter at the ranges you'd use an 8" barreled shotgun at.
 
From what I've read, there is no velocity gain in barrel lengths over 18". If that short barreled shotgun gives you a bit of a kick, you can always buy ported choke tubes! HA! That has to be the biggest marketing gimmick ever.
 
Nightcrwaler- I wrote those exact numbers down that day we tried to kill my chrono.

That 8" siaga ran a 3" magnum slug load at 1075. Said load was factory rated at 1400. So even with the gas system taking some, and the short barrel, there was still plenty of steam.
 
Good thread. I've sorta been wondering if a 20" barrel is much off a 28" for velocity? I didn't reckon it would be much, if any. I'd read somewhere that anything over 18-20" was a waste, an article I remember from a long time ago. They were discussing the "long toms", 36" goose guns Marlin and others used to produce. That was a hold over from the black powder days and the article explained that. Main reason that article sticks in my head is a buddy who had a bolt action Marlin 12 gauge goose gun and was always braggin' on that 36" barrel. We were teen aged gun "experts" then and always arguing about such stupid stuff. I showed him the article, but of course, it was rubbish. :rolleyes: :D I used to get real irritated at that gun of his when he's swing it around and hit me in the back of the head with that danged pole now and then.:rolleyes:

20 years ago, 20" barrels were all the rage on turkey guns, short meant maneuverable and the claim then in the press was that anything over 18" was a waste, so I assume it's so. I ain't gonna go shooting shot loads over my old Chrony to prove it, though. I'd take out the screens, and if the wad hit the Chrony, lights out, LOL! If I had an Ohler with those big sky screens I would, but I'm going to let others chronograph shotgun loads. :D
 
I found this. See the chart near the bottom for barrel length vs. velocity.

http://www.guncustomizing.com/tech.htm

Unfortunately, it doesn't have data for barrels under 22".

I also found this:

Q. Does barrel length affect the velocity I will get out of a load?

A. Barrel length will certainly affect the velocity achieved by a particular load. As a rule of thumb, in rifles and pistols, each inch of barrel length difference will change velocity between 35 fps and 50 fps.

http://www.hodgdon.com/faq/index.php#barrel length affect the velocity
 
Wow, thanks for the link! That certainly tells the tale on the 20 vs 28 thing. Well, okay, 22 inches, but 22" is less than 50 fps off the 28" in most loads so I can assume there won't be diddly difference in 20" from my coach gun. :D I'm more interested in its effectiveness bird hunting. I ain't worried about self defense, already know I, personally, wouldn't wanna be shot in the chest with a load of #3 buck from it. :what: :D

What's interesting, and if I still were in touch with that old friend of mine (haven't seen him in 35 years) and he was still stuck on long toms, a 30" barrel, with a Winchester load, actually LOST velocity! This is likely because at that point, the friction of the barrel is taking over from the pressure behind the charge. I've seen this in .22s with long barrels, too. So, basically, I'm thinkin' you might actually be shooting FASTER with a 20" barrel than a 36" one! ROFLMAO!!!!!! Good stuff.:D
 
I know that there isn't much loss of velocity until you get the barrel somewhere under 18". I would really love to see a chart that shows how the velocity drops off on barrels between 18" and 8", in 1" increments.

Car Knocker said:
This is now the top listed page by google for "SBS Velocity".
Click to expand...
Help me out here - what is the point of your comment?
Click to expand...

The point is that there doesn't seem to be any information on the internet about what I'm looking for.
 
A swiss gun rag ran a test on two South African shotguns called Bulldog, those with the drum mag. As far as I remember, the Barrels were 8" and 12". They testen against a 18" pump. The energies for a 2 3/3 slug were 2500, 1500 and 800 repectively. These are energies in Joule, for comparison a 9x19 has around 500 Joule. I wouldn't want a shotgun with less than 18" Barrel. The big point of a shotgun is it's energy, isn't it. Else you can go for a handgun.
 
The main point of a shotgun IS NOT it's energy, the advantage is the weight of the shot.

You see, the point of high powered rifles is energy. Light and fast= high muzzle energy
Heavy and slow= low muzzle energy

an average 55 grain 5.56 Nato or a .223 will produce around 1500 ft. lbs. of energy.

The average 00 Buckshot with 450-550 grain load will produce around 1500 ft. lbs. of energy. The advantage is the heavy load.
 
Rudolf, it would be most appreciated if you could post the numbers from the article you mentioned. :cool:
 
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