Hey , i think that he likes that shotgun...any personal experiences?
here is the full thread http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=31455
I have a staff member's personal Saiga in house at present. I have my own en route to me, but in the meantime....
Observations.
This is a far better shotgun than any other I have worked with. If I had a choice between a Saiga and a Benelli, I'd go Saiga hands down. It is the only purpose-desinged fighting shotgun available today. Everything else...even the Benelli (that is what the engineers at Benelli Italy told me) is a "sporting" weapon modified for police/military use.
Think of a shotgun with all the characteristics of a shotgun, yet with the same exact manual of arms as your Kalashnikov!!
As it comes, it needs to have a few parts replaced. The addition of a Tapco G-2 Trigger Pack and the relocation of the trigger guard to add a pistol grip are essential. As is the subsequent change to a regular AK butt stock.
Some come with 22 inch barrels, so I'd recommend chopping these to barely legal 18.5" long. When I get my personal weapon, I will examine turning it into a short barreled shotgun.
The main advantage of the Saiga is the magazine feed. No longer do you have to fumble with single rounds of buckshot. You can load a full magazine. In perusing the various Saiga discussions I have heard from some that the Saiga magazine can only be loaded while the bolt is held back.
My initial impression of the Saiga was the same. However, after loading and reloading a Saiga 12 with a closed bolt and FULL 5 round magazines, several hundred times, I can tell you that this is absolutely false. You can load the Saiga the same way you load your AK.
So the shoot-one-load one process that so complicates the manual of arms of the shotgun is a moot point for the Saiga. Instead, you shoot it. When it stops, you go to pistol if inside CQB range, or drop behind cover and reload it like your AK if outside of pistol range. Caveman simple.
While the SI Jury is still out on the select slug issue, it is noteworthy that conducting this maneuver with a Saiga is as simple as executing the speed load which some guys teach for the AK. While I am not a fan of IPSC-based speed reloads that involve needlessly dropping magazines, one could argue that if the need to change ammo is so pressing, the dropping of a magazine of five rounds is not such a big deal.
That being the case, you can "speed transition" to slugs on the Saiga in 5 steps. Simply exchange the buckshot filled magazine with a slug filled magazine.
1). Grab Slug Magazine
2). Trip Magazine catch - Dropping On Board Buckshot Magazine
3). Insert & Latch Slug Magazine
4). Run The Bolt
5). Fire Slug
(The 870 takes about 7-8 steps...the Benelli takes 5 steps). No need to leave "dead spaces in the tube or anything of the sort.
The Saiga will be best equipped with a folding stock of one sort or another. I have seen Saiga 12s equipped with AK-100 stocks in Europe and these are very cool. i will have to talk Jim Fuller into doing the extra work on my Saiga . If not possible, an ACE folder will work fine.
Why the folder...because I like to carry my weapons with me...in my car...in my rucksack. A folder makes it far easier to do this than lugging a rifle case around with you. If you do not feel a need for this, you can certainly add a simple AK stock (PLEASE...do not M4-ize your Saiga).
On recoil...I will not lie to you and tell you there is no recoil. Any instructor that says that is not being honest. Certainly, if you weigh in at 300 pounds, and are shooting "low recoil" stuff you can shoot the frigging shotgun from a weaver stance if you want. The 12 gauge shotgun is not for frail folks. However, the Saiga feels to me much like my old 11-87 which was one of the softest shooting shotguns of all. For those who want a lighter feel, they also make a 20 gauge which at the ranges shotguns will most likely be used, will do just fine.
Bottom line...you will be hearing more from me with regards to the Saiga shotgun. If you are in the market for a semi-auto shotgun, take a long hard serious look at the Saiga before you drop the same money (or far more money) on a Benelli, or 11-87, or any other converted sports gun.
here is the full thread http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=31455
I have a staff member's personal Saiga in house at present. I have my own en route to me, but in the meantime....
Observations.
This is a far better shotgun than any other I have worked with. If I had a choice between a Saiga and a Benelli, I'd go Saiga hands down. It is the only purpose-desinged fighting shotgun available today. Everything else...even the Benelli (that is what the engineers at Benelli Italy told me) is a "sporting" weapon modified for police/military use.
Think of a shotgun with all the characteristics of a shotgun, yet with the same exact manual of arms as your Kalashnikov!!
As it comes, it needs to have a few parts replaced. The addition of a Tapco G-2 Trigger Pack and the relocation of the trigger guard to add a pistol grip are essential. As is the subsequent change to a regular AK butt stock.
Some come with 22 inch barrels, so I'd recommend chopping these to barely legal 18.5" long. When I get my personal weapon, I will examine turning it into a short barreled shotgun.
The main advantage of the Saiga is the magazine feed. No longer do you have to fumble with single rounds of buckshot. You can load a full magazine. In perusing the various Saiga discussions I have heard from some that the Saiga magazine can only be loaded while the bolt is held back.
My initial impression of the Saiga was the same. However, after loading and reloading a Saiga 12 with a closed bolt and FULL 5 round magazines, several hundred times, I can tell you that this is absolutely false. You can load the Saiga the same way you load your AK.
So the shoot-one-load one process that so complicates the manual of arms of the shotgun is a moot point for the Saiga. Instead, you shoot it. When it stops, you go to pistol if inside CQB range, or drop behind cover and reload it like your AK if outside of pistol range. Caveman simple.
While the SI Jury is still out on the select slug issue, it is noteworthy that conducting this maneuver with a Saiga is as simple as executing the speed load which some guys teach for the AK. While I am not a fan of IPSC-based speed reloads that involve needlessly dropping magazines, one could argue that if the need to change ammo is so pressing, the dropping of a magazine of five rounds is not such a big deal.
That being the case, you can "speed transition" to slugs on the Saiga in 5 steps. Simply exchange the buckshot filled magazine with a slug filled magazine.
1). Grab Slug Magazine
2). Trip Magazine catch - Dropping On Board Buckshot Magazine
3). Insert & Latch Slug Magazine
4). Run The Bolt
5). Fire Slug
(The 870 takes about 7-8 steps...the Benelli takes 5 steps). No need to leave "dead spaces in the tube or anything of the sort.
The Saiga will be best equipped with a folding stock of one sort or another. I have seen Saiga 12s equipped with AK-100 stocks in Europe and these are very cool. i will have to talk Jim Fuller into doing the extra work on my Saiga . If not possible, an ACE folder will work fine.
Why the folder...because I like to carry my weapons with me...in my car...in my rucksack. A folder makes it far easier to do this than lugging a rifle case around with you. If you do not feel a need for this, you can certainly add a simple AK stock (PLEASE...do not M4-ize your Saiga).
On recoil...I will not lie to you and tell you there is no recoil. Any instructor that says that is not being honest. Certainly, if you weigh in at 300 pounds, and are shooting "low recoil" stuff you can shoot the frigging shotgun from a weaver stance if you want. The 12 gauge shotgun is not for frail folks. However, the Saiga feels to me much like my old 11-87 which was one of the softest shooting shotguns of all. For those who want a lighter feel, they also make a 20 gauge which at the ranges shotguns will most likely be used, will do just fine.
Bottom line...you will be hearing more from me with regards to the Saiga shotgun. If you are in the market for a semi-auto shotgun, take a long hard serious look at the Saiga before you drop the same money (or far more money) on a Benelli, or 11-87, or any other converted sports gun.
