Frank4711
Member
S&W 638 +p 38...got rid of the boot grips, full size hogue allows 3 fingers on the grips easy to control...
Scandium J Frame...Are they worth it???
- Thread starter M&PVolk
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I use reformed cocobolo grips, and, Fioochi 148's at 1131 fps out of my gun. It drops in a suit pants.
That said, with the 10 pound trigger, down from 17 after a trigger job, DA, head shots are out, and, only COM at 7 yards are possible.
I use the PM9 most of the time, and, if I had a choice, I'd rather have the 360PD with a 3" BARREL.
HUGE difference in ballistics, and, it makes it a real 357.
Full power 357 is OUT of the question. 30 ft lbs recoil at 50 fps is the nastiest recoil ever. It will seriously hurt you....
That said, with the 10 pound trigger, down from 17 after a trigger job, DA, head shots are out, and, only COM at 7 yards are possible.
I use the PM9 most of the time, and, if I had a choice, I'd rather have the 360PD with a 3" BARREL.
HUGE difference in ballistics, and, it makes it a real 357.
Full power 357 is OUT of the question. 30 ft lbs recoil at 50 fps is the nastiest recoil ever. It will seriously hurt you....
The guns recoil level is due to it's lightweight, and, to be able to carry it CCW, the grips have to be very small, and slick. I have large hands, and the combination makes head shots a dream, at least at 10 yards for me, and, yes, I'm getting old.
Still, I have no problem with such shooting with either a Kahr PM 9, or Detonics Combatmaster, using 45 super.
Due to this, I have to conclude its the gritty, still stiff, 10 pound trigger pull, combined with the gun. Also, since it is no fun to shoot, I haven't spent as much time shooting it, vs. the others. The Detonics I have 100's of thousands of rounds through, and 1911's, and, that feeling that you are picking up an old friend you know very well is not present in the snubby.
I had the same problem with a Model 63, in DA, though it was better, still not accurate, and, I sold it.
It's really a result of physics. A 12 oz gun just is too easy to accelerate to insane recoil speeds with .357 magnum loads. "The beast" recoils over 20 fps FASTER then my .475 and .500 Linebaughs, and, that represents an increase in recoil speed of over 70%. Combine that, with a tiny grip, and, I think you can end up with serious, real damage to your arms, and hands.
All that said, it puts out 125's at 1204 fps, or, 148's at 1131 fps. While you can get 9mm subcompacts to match the first 125 result, they don't come close on the heavier bullets. I also use 158 grain lead HP's gas checked, for 1040 fps. These are Buffalobore Plus P's.
I find the standard service calibers suffering from Political correctness and, with that result, are all marginal for their intended purpose. For that reason, turning the lights out, i.e. head shots, are a major factor in CCW guns.
Given a choice, I'd much rather have a heavier gun, with a better trigger, that is more accurate.
Still, given the above loads, it is the most powerful 15 oz. loaded gun I know of, and, that power might work on COM shots, to an advantage.
It is also the 2nd lightest gun I own, and, it gets the call for taking out the trash, etc.
I have only one handgun that gives me the same concern, and, it shoots 525 grain bullets at 1350 fps, out of a 3.6 pound gun.
While it still doesn't recoil near as fast as the 360, it recoils with near double the ft-lbs, and that does nasty things to your arms and hands as well.
Still, I have no problem with such shooting with either a Kahr PM 9, or Detonics Combatmaster, using 45 super.
Due to this, I have to conclude its the gritty, still stiff, 10 pound trigger pull, combined with the gun. Also, since it is no fun to shoot, I haven't spent as much time shooting it, vs. the others. The Detonics I have 100's of thousands of rounds through, and 1911's, and, that feeling that you are picking up an old friend you know very well is not present in the snubby.
I had the same problem with a Model 63, in DA, though it was better, still not accurate, and, I sold it.
It's really a result of physics. A 12 oz gun just is too easy to accelerate to insane recoil speeds with .357 magnum loads. "The beast" recoils over 20 fps FASTER then my .475 and .500 Linebaughs, and, that represents an increase in recoil speed of over 70%. Combine that, with a tiny grip, and, I think you can end up with serious, real damage to your arms, and hands.
All that said, it puts out 125's at 1204 fps, or, 148's at 1131 fps. While you can get 9mm subcompacts to match the first 125 result, they don't come close on the heavier bullets. I also use 158 grain lead HP's gas checked, for 1040 fps. These are Buffalobore Plus P's.
I find the standard service calibers suffering from Political correctness and, with that result, are all marginal for their intended purpose. For that reason, turning the lights out, i.e. head shots, are a major factor in CCW guns.
Given a choice, I'd much rather have a heavier gun, with a better trigger, that is more accurate.
Still, given the above loads, it is the most powerful 15 oz. loaded gun I know of, and, that power might work on COM shots, to an advantage.
It is also the 2nd lightest gun I own, and, it gets the call for taking out the trash, etc.
I have only one handgun that gives me the same concern, and, it shoots 525 grain bullets at 1350 fps, out of a 3.6 pound gun.
While it still doesn't recoil near as fast as the 360, it recoils with near double the ft-lbs, and that does nasty things to your arms and hands as well.
I have owned them all.
I prefer the 340pd as my "go to" carry gun. It offers my choice of power combinations, and it's light weight makes it a wonderful carry weapon. I would invest in a set of Crimson Trace laser grips and a very high quality pocket holster and you are set. To me, all the terrible recoil stories are not a factor. Load it with what you can handle, practice with a heavier gun such as a 640. I fully believe if I ever need this thing to save my life the laser grips will be the best part of the investment. To me this is the absolute perfect combination.
I prefer the 340pd as my "go to" carry gun. It offers my choice of power combinations, and it's light weight makes it a wonderful carry weapon. I would invest in a set of Crimson Trace laser grips and a very high quality pocket holster and you are set. To me, all the terrible recoil stories are not a factor. Load it with what you can handle, practice with a heavier gun such as a 640. I fully believe if I ever need this thing to save my life the laser grips will be the best part of the investment. To me this is the absolute perfect combination.
I did not read all the posts above me but I have a 360 PD in 357 mag and love it. It is great to carry but as I am sure is mentioned above it kicks like a MF. I have never felt recoil like my 360PD, but I still love it as it is small, light, and powerful. Shoot little - carry often.
JWF III
Member
I think it's funny how those people that have them absolutely love them. And those that don't have them (and possibly never shot one) say they're not worth the money, and recoil is too bad. You can infer anything you'd like from that.
I have a 360 PD, and the only thing that I don't like about it is that for a CC gun, I wish I'd have gotten a 340. I grew up shooting single actions and thought that I'd rather have the option, but that little hammer easily gets caught on everything. Now I just have a reason to buy another gun.
(Like I really needed a reason.
)
I've been thru 8 boxes in 7 months, and another 16 boxes of .38s. I've never had that much of a problem with the recoil.
BTW. It's not the amount of recoil generated by the cartridge, it's the speed of the recoil from the light gun. After a box of full magnums, my hand feels like I've been holding a chainsaw (or any other high vibration item) for a couple of hours. It's somewhere between numb and a bee sting, but it's nowhere near painful.
Wyman
I have a 360 PD, and the only thing that I don't like about it is that for a CC gun, I wish I'd have gotten a 340. I grew up shooting single actions and thought that I'd rather have the option, but that little hammer easily gets caught on everything. Now I just have a reason to buy another gun.
(Like I really needed a reason.)I've been thru 8 boxes in 7 months, and another 16 boxes of .38s. I've never had that much of a problem with the recoil.
BTW. It's not the amount of recoil generated by the cartridge, it's the speed of the recoil from the light gun. After a box of full magnums, my hand feels like I've been holding a chainsaw (or any other high vibration item) for a couple of hours. It's somewhere between numb and a bee sting, but it's nowhere near painful.
Wyman
armsmaster270
Member
I have the 340PD w/CT Laser Grips as a backup and keep .357mag Gold Dot Short Barrel hollowpoints in it. It does have a thump but its not as bad as the thump at the other end.
Fumbler
Member
The scandiums aren't worth it to me.
You pay 50-60% more and all you get are a marginally nicer front sight and a weight savings of 2 oz.
If I had a scandium I'd still load it with 38 +P.
A scandium with full 357mag loads recoils with the same energy as my Ruger Super Redhawk in 480 Ruger. However, it recoils much faster and that = lots of pain for many people.
I can handle recoil, but the simple truth is I can get back on target much faster with the 38s.
I know a couple of guys with scandium J frames. All but one loads them with 38 +P.
The one that loads his with 357mag carries Speer's Gold Dot Short barrel.
I'm not sure why he even does that. Double Tap and Buffalo Bore's 38 +P loads have all of the performance of Speer's Short Barrel ammo and costs less too.
If I was filthy rich I would have purchased the 340 instead of my 637. Lighter is always nice in a carry gun and the 357 capability would be something to laugh about with new shooters.
But, I'm not filthy rich.
I bought a 637 and a Taurus 85UL for my wife and still paid less than a new 340.
You pay 50-60% more and all you get are a marginally nicer front sight and a weight savings of 2 oz.
If I had a scandium I'd still load it with 38 +P.
A scandium with full 357mag loads recoils with the same energy as my Ruger Super Redhawk in 480 Ruger. However, it recoils much faster and that = lots of pain for many people.
I can handle recoil, but the simple truth is I can get back on target much faster with the 38s.
I know a couple of guys with scandium J frames. All but one loads them with 38 +P.
The one that loads his with 357mag carries Speer's Gold Dot Short barrel.
I'm not sure why he even does that. Double Tap and Buffalo Bore's 38 +P loads have all of the performance of Speer's Short Barrel ammo and costs less too.
If I was filthy rich I would have purchased the 340 instead of my 637. Lighter is always nice in a carry gun and the 357 capability would be something to laugh about with new shooters.
But, I'm not filthy rich.
I bought a 637 and a Taurus 85UL for my wife and still paid less than a new 340.
madstabber
Member
Did I make the right decision buying a 642 instead of a ruger lcr?
I bought a S&W 642 because I'm a diehard S&W fan but I just checked out thr ruger lcr and I love the trigger pull and the overall feel. so someone convince me I did the right thing.
I bought a S&W 642 because I'm a diehard S&W fan but I just checked out thr ruger lcr and I love the trigger pull and the overall feel. so someone convince me I did the right thing.
JWF III
Member
Have been thinking about it, but then I wouldn't have another gun.
Wyman
(As if I really need another, it's more that I just want another.)
porschedog
Member
I've got an Airweight (stainless) and just got a 360 M&P. It has become my favorite carry gun. The front sight is amazing and the light weight makes it a breeze to carry. It's nice to know I can pack it with two .38 spl +P's with three .357 beans behind them if the situation has not yet been rectified.
I added CTC grips that I resisted at first, but now make the 360 fit perfectly. For me it was worth the extra cost, but that's just me.
I added CTC grips that I resisted at first, but now make the 360 fit perfectly. For me it was worth the extra cost, but that's just me.
I have a 340PD and I have enjoyed the process of ‘growing into the gun.' I had the gun for quite a while before I was in a position to start shooting it on a regular basis. Early on, I experienced what has been mentioned before, I the gun was painful using .357’s and unpleasant shooting 38+p’s. However, I have invested time and energy in shooting it weekly, and over time (with the added benefit of doing my own reloading to slowly and safely increase power levels) I have been able to become comfortable shooting increasingly powerful rounds. Like running a marathon, few can do one on the first try, but with training and dedication they can become possible and even enjoyable. This is not a process that I accomplished overnight, and is ongoing yet. At this point I am extremely confident shooting milder .357’s (like Remington’s 125g golden saber offering at 1250ft/s), the 158 grain factory loads are not yet something I am completely comfortable with, but they no longer hold the horror they once held. I still have room to grow and I look forward to the future.
I think that the scandium guns can make for poor choices for most folks who want something that they can comfortably and accurately shoot full power loads like the all steel ones. However, with effort and practice, they can make for quite a concealable powerhouse. These are high performance revolvers. Just like it takes significant track time for your average car nut to be able to get every ounce of speed and drop one’s lap times in a street legal race car like a 911 GT3 to be competitive in a race, it can take the scandium frame owner a similar investment to be able to fully enjoy all of the features of the revolver. They aren’t for everyone, but I find they are ‘worth it’. And, they still make for a fine lightweight .38 revolver if you don’t want to take it to the track and just want to go show her off at the local car show.
I think that the scandium guns can make for poor choices for most folks who want something that they can comfortably and accurately shoot full power loads like the all steel ones. However, with effort and practice, they can make for quite a concealable powerhouse. These are high performance revolvers. Just like it takes significant track time for your average car nut to be able to get every ounce of speed and drop one’s lap times in a street legal race car like a 911 GT3 to be competitive in a race, it can take the scandium frame owner a similar investment to be able to fully enjoy all of the features of the revolver. They aren’t for everyone, but I find they are ‘worth it’. And, they still make for a fine lightweight .38 revolver if you don’t want to take it to the track and just want to go show her off at the local car show.
Dollar An Hour
Member
I liked my 340 M&P enough that I sold my 442-1. Big step up in power, much better sights and finish. Pocket carries better as its lighter. Pachmayr Compac Pro makes .357's much more pleasant to practice with, as I like to practice with my carry load.
ridemypanhead
Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2010
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- 2
Hello Sir Aarrdvark,
I found a mint 2 mo old 360PD 38 spec for 479.00 What do you think of this price?
I would appreciate your comment, I carry a Kimber Ultra carry II and a Glock but I am looking for a lighter gun.
Thanks
I found a mint 2 mo old 360PD 38 spec for 479.00 What do you think of this price?
I would appreciate your comment, I carry a Kimber Ultra carry II and a Glock but I am looking for a lighter gun.
Thanks
If it's a .38spl, it's not a 360PD, it's a 360J. Same scandium frame but a carbon steel cyl cut for .38spl where the PD hs a stainless steel cyl in .357mag. There are some other differences like cheaper sights. I bought mine about 1 1/2 years ago from Bud's guns for $409.
I am sure I am in the minority with this choice by my carry now is the old all-steel S&W Model 36.
I owned and carried a M&P 340 for some time but after shoot the all steel version a few time was sold on it over the lightweights. For me at least, I can get significantly faster followup shots with the all steel M36 over the 340. And in reality it is not all that heavier ~7-8 oz difference especially with the ways that I dress and carry.
I owned and carried a M&P 340 for some time but after shoot the all steel version a few time was sold on it over the lightweights. For me at least, I can get significantly faster followup shots with the all steel M36 over the 340. And in reality it is not all that heavier ~7-8 oz difference especially with the ways that I dress and carry.
I know one experienced shooter who bought one as a carry gun but was afraid to even test shoot it! No thanks.
I have an all steel 3" Taurus 605 with factory Hogue grips. Shoots very easily and is plenty light for carry. I wouldn't want anything lighter weight in a .357.
I have an all steel 3" Taurus 605 with factory Hogue grips. Shoots very easily and is plenty light for carry. I wouldn't want anything lighter weight in a .357.
The recoil is only as bad as the ammo you choose to shoot. Just because the gun is capable of shooting ammo with a heavy recoil doesn't mean you have to do it. A new Corvette can go 165mph but you can bet the majority of Corvette owners out there haven't been over 85.
I've shot 9x23 Winchester out of my scandium J-frame and I've shot full-house .357mags out of my friends 340PD. Naturally recoil was stout in both cases but manageable, and now I know what to expect. Would I want to run through a couple of boxes of that stuff at the range? Heck no, I shoot mostly standard 9mm through mine and my friend shoots mostly .38spl through his. But, now we both know that there's nothing to fear if we choose to carry them with hot loads and ever have to use them.
Madcap_Magician
Member
The velocity loss of a .357 from a snubnose still leaves it substantially more powerful than a .38 +P. That being said, the recoil is exponentially more powerful than a .38 +P, especially out of the ultra lightweights.
My thinking is, if I wanted to experience that, I'd just slam my hand in my car trunk a few times instead of shelling out nearly a grand.
YMMV.
My thinking is, if I wanted to experience that, I'd just slam my hand in my car trunk a few times instead of shelling out nearly a grand.
YMMV.
snooperman
Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
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- 2,143
Guillermo said it best....
"SHOOT BEFORE YOU BUY" .. Most people do not like the recoil of those fly weight guns, including me. I have fired them many times from friends who wish they had not bought them. I like the all steel guns as you will have better control for a quick follow-up shot as well. Yes, they are a joy to carry, but a gun should be comforting and you will get used to the all steel gun in a few days of carrying it. I am so used to my old Colt detective , I do not notice the weight at all, IWB holster.
"SHOOT BEFORE YOU BUY" .. Most people do not like the recoil of those fly weight guns, including me. I have fired them many times from friends who wish they had not bought them. I like the all steel guns as you will have better control for a quick follow-up shot as well. Yes, they are a joy to carry, but a gun should be comforting and you will get used to the all steel gun in a few days of carrying it. I am so used to my old Colt detective , I do not notice the weight at all, IWB holster.
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