SCAR rifle Reviewed

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zach13168

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The new issue of Small Arms Review dedicated a good portion of the magazine to the FN SCAR. Apparently they where the first civilians to get to play with it. The article was filled with great pics and had a section on how to disassemble the rifle, it show that the bolt was a Stoner type with a spring loaded ejector. This rifle was created out of a need for greater reliability and easy maintenance. From my own experience with the Stoner type bolt their a pain to clean and the extractor spring breaks after a couple thousand rounds. Why would SOCOM accept this? Is it possible that SOCOM didn't look at other options (XCR which was never tested), Improved the bolt, or with a piston driven system the bolt doesn't get that dirty and the spring has a greater life with out carbon blown into its area.

Can't wait for the civilian one to come out!

Zach
 
Hmm... I'll wait to pass judgement until I get to play with one. Reliability is a big thing for me. If I can't beat it like it owes me money, I'm not interested.
 
Are you smoking crack? Every AR15 variant I have ever used or personally seen requries a specific brand of ammunition, not to mention hand-selected magazines that must be tested. If anything is altered a perfectly clean gun with perfectly normal looking ammunition will have trouble getting through a single mag. And you can forget about using steel case ammo.

And this is under ideal situations like a trip to the range, not combat where there is lots of dirt and few opportunities to clean the gun.

The utter lack of reliability is unacceptable in a combat or self defense firearm.

Contrast this with the average AK47 that will fire any brand of ammunition reliably even when dirty, fed from any magazine that will fit in the gun.

Also contrast this to the Kel-tec SU16 which duplicates the AR15's accuracy and so far seems to duplicate the reliability of the AK. The SU16 isnt even designed as a combat weapon but it outperforms the AR15 in every meaningful way.

The only difference is that these guns use sealed gas pistons while the AR15 uses the stoner system. Stop lying to yourself that the Stoner system is anything less than a flaw in the gun's design.
 
I guess you should look at different AR15's then. Every single one I've owned has run like a swiss watch.

And the original post didn't say anything about a direct gas system (non-issue if I've ever seen one), only that the bolt uses a spring loaded ejector.
 
I have three Bushmaster AR15s that have run like tops. My only major problem involved a bad batch of reloaded ammo that was being sold as lake city where the bullet tore off the case and dumped the gunpower everywhere.

I only U.S. GI Spec magazines and all have run perfectly, old or new.

Now I have seen Wolf Ammo lock up an AR or two but if you follow the mantra of Commie ammo for Commie guns, 'Merican ammo for 'Merican guns you should be just fine.

Chris
 
Even though this thread is not about 15's, i'll just comment that mine runs like a top and eats up any ammunition. It doesn't discriminate based on the type of metal the casing is :D

I look forward to seeing more of the scar rifle.
 
I have honestly never heard extractor being such an issue on the Stoner bolt system. Isn't it Ed Brown who uses this extractor setup on some custom bolt-action rifles? The spring loaded plunger ejector is another pretty common setup. If it was so bad, everybody would be using Mauser 98s still with claw extractors and fixed-blade ejectors.

On my AR there is little spring tension on the extractor anymore, and it still functions fine. Not only that, but it is a cinch to pull apart and scrub clean, at least to me. Never have had a need to pull the ejector out of the bolt though. Of course this AR runs like a top as well, with any random magazine and ammo I've used in it. Perhaps I got a dud?
 
Are you smoking crack? Every AR15 variant I have ever used or personally seen requries a specific brand of ammunition, not to mention hand-selected magazines that must be tested. If anything is altered a perfectly clean gun with perfectly normal looking ammunition will have trouble getting through a single mag. And you can forget about using steel case ammo.
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Dude, where are you getting these AR's from? Did Hi-Point or Lorcin suddenly bring out an AR line? I'm no AR fanboy, but this is absurd. The AR will malfunction of you abuse it (theoretically- mine hasn't jammed, but I also don't abuse it), but I've seen ARs dirty with hundreds, maybe thousands, of rounds run without a hiccup. They're not perfect, but they're good guns.

Mike
 
No these were all bushies and rock river (I think). While I didnt have a chance to examine them with a micrometer, they didnt seem obviously flawed in their manufacture. Maybe I am just spoiled by growing up with levery and bolty type guns that never went click instead of bang, and then graduated onto semiautos that were similarly reliable before discovering the ar15.

Maybe I misunderstood the original poster, but how can you have a stoner bolt without a stoner type action? Isnt the whole point that there isnt a gas piston attached to the bolt? Unless it is some sort of SKS-type design where the gas piston is not physically connected to the bolt except when it pushes? Ive never played with a SCAR so obviously I'm limited by the truth of what others tell me.

In any case, I'm not asking anyone else to give up their AR15s just because I dont like them. Some people like to drink bud light, others prefer to drink hefe-weissen while others prefer stout or lambic. To each his own.
 
The SCAR uses a horizontal “L” shaped bolt carrier that the Stoner styled bolt (multiple locking lugs and a spring loader ejector) that fits into the carrier. Notice that when I described the bolt I said “Stoner styled” it is not identical but very similar. The direct impingement system connects directly to the M16 bolt carrier not the bolt that’s why other rifle designs can use a Stoner styled bolt with out the direct impingement system. The spring loader ejector is the weakest part on the M16 series weapons that’s why devices such as the “d-fender” have been produced.

“The recent law enforcement movement to patrol rifles and carbines has seen a large number of the AR-15/ M-16 type firearms enter service. In twenty years of competition and training, I have observed more than a half a million rounds fired from these weapons and have seen a large number of malfunctions. One basic fault in the design of the AR-15/M-16 type weapon is the lack of extractor spring tension. Regardless of manufacturer, I have observed numerous extraction failures where the fired cartridge case prematurely releases off the bolt face prior to ejection. The fired case remains in the feedway and is jammed on top of a live round feeding from below causing a serious malfunction. To reduce the malfunction requires magazine removal, bolt lock, and feedway clearing, before the weapon can be returned to service.”….. Jeff Chudwin, Olympia Fields P.D.
 
Hmm. ARs unreliable? I built a Model 1 Sales 16" kit on a RRA lower and it's fed Winchester White Box, laquer coated Wolf and at least a case of poly coated Wolf without a singe malfunction. Took it camping for 4 days in the cold and mud and put 300 rounds or so through it with no problems. And have used USGI, SA80 and Orlite magazines with no problems.
 
This thread is not about if the M16 is unreliable, it’s a fine rifle and I own more of them than any other rifle. While I like the M16 it has its faults just like anything. The SCAR was developed to be the best for SOCOM and having the stoner styled bolt is not the best out elite operators could have.
 
The Dfender type rings work to increase extractor tension; they don't do anything with regard to the ejector.

The LMT enhanced bolt is an option if you don't like the stock one for whatever reason.
 
From my own experience with the Stoner type bolt their a pain to clean and the extractor spring breaks after a couple thousand rounds.
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The first is subjective - I don't have any trouble cleaning mine. At any rate, I thought the SCAR used an op-rod arrangement in place of the gas-tube system of the AR. That eliminates the main cause of fouling right there.

As for the extractor spring breaking ... huh? Mine (home-build FrankenAR) has several thousand rounds through it and no broken spring yet.

The last time I checked FN has a fair bit of experience with this sort of thing. If they thought there was a problem with the design I suspect they would have used something else.

This thread is not about if the M16 is unreliable,
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And yet you say the extractor spring breaks after as little as 2000 rounds?
 
No these were all bushies and rock river (I think). While I didnt have a chance to examine them with a micrometer, they didnt seem obviously flawed in their manufacture. Maybe I am just spoiled by growing up with levery and bolty type guns that never went click instead of bang, and then graduated onto semiautos that were similarly reliable before discovering the ar15.
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So, how many rifles are we talking here? And was each of them only reliable with a single brand of ammo? Against this I'll toss my own anecdotal evidence...I own one RRA that has been very solid (and I'm not exactly anal about cleaning), and I have a few friends with Colts and (mostly) Bushies that run just fine. I've seen a few hiccups, but nothing like you describe.

I'm not disputing your preference. Some people like ARs (I do). Some people like AKs (they're ok). Some people like FALs (now we're talking). I'm just saying that the criticism seems a little extreme.
Some people like to drink bud light, others prefer to drink hefe-weissen while others prefer stout or lambic. To each his own.
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I'll take a good english or belgian ale, if you're taking orders. Chimay or Old Peculier will do nicely, thanks. ;)

Mike
 
Does anyone have any info on the short short barrel and the full calibre 7.62 bullets coming out? Is it blinding, deafening, does it scorch stuff with fireballs? Is the recoil manageable on full-auto, how, why, why not?
 
The SCAR, to repeat what someone already clarified, has a gas-piston and operating rod system. It is closer to the HK G36 than the AR15/M16.

Another interesting point brought out by the article: FN is producing a modified steel magazine specially for the SCAR. These magazines will still work in ARs, but have some modifications that are supposed to improve reliability.

Also, the rifle reviewed was the prototype; SAR will do a follow-up article on the production model. The production model will have an AR-style fence around the magazine release, for example.

It seemed like it combines all the best features we've found useful in the last 50 years of the assault rifle. Should be a solid performer.

John
 
Lets say that FN has worked out the problems with the extractor spring, but would the small locking lugs be able to the handle pressure from the 6.8 and other rounds more powerfull than 5.56.

Zach
 
AFAIK, the stoner style bolt seems to work fine for 7.62x51 in the AR-10's, and that cartridge is one of the design specs for the SCAR.

Nobody said it was an M16 bolt, it is an M16 style bolt. The lugs can change size of number, and it's still a stoner bolt.
 
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Owen, Good Point! should have thought of that. I am sure that FN and SOCOM have everything worked out. I was just surprised to see that style of bolt.

Zach
 
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