Scarring on S&W 637 cylinder

[RH Factor]

I was looking at a S&W 637 at the store yesterday and noticed a scarring ring that was on the outside of the cylinder where the notches are that cycle the cylinder. It's as if there is a rubbing that takes away some of the finish going all the way around. Is this natural? It seemed as all the S&W revo's had this. does this happen...should it happen....this is a new gun that I'm sure has been handled in the store. It's sold at Galyan's for $329. I thought the price is good. Any comments??

 

[ruger357]

That is normal. Good price for the 637.

 

[Kahr carrier]

Ditto normal wear usually called a cylinder ring ,and that is a good price also.

 

[J Miller]

Sorry I must disagree. The drag ring should not go ALL the way around the cylinder. My 25-5 that has shot thousands of rounds the last 20+ years only has wear from the end of the flutes, where the bolt pops up, to the bolt notch. The remainder of the cylinder is free of drag marks.
Drag marks all the way around is caused by either a mechanical problem, or improper handling of the revolver.

 

[WebHobbit]

EVERY single revolver (regardless of brand) that I've ever seen has this line all the way around the cylinder.



J Miller -- you have a picture of yours?

 

[Mike Irwin]

Yes, the drag line around the entire circumference of the cylinder is normal.

It is ALSO normal, however, for the drag line to only be apparent around PART of the cylinder's circumference on some revolvers.

It all has to do with how the cylinder bolt is timed.

I just examined 12 of my S&W revolvers, ranging from an 85 year old I-frame to a late 1990s J frame, with a bunch of N, K, and J frames scattered in between.

9 of them have a drag line around the whole circumference of the cylinder. In several it is of an even appearance, while on a couple others it is heavier the closer the cylinder gets to the next notch.

In 1 of them, my 24-3, the drag line is closer to what J Miller describes.

In the other 2, there is no cylinder drag line.

I haven't shot them enough yet to wear one in.

Add to that the couple dozen or so S&W revolves on which I've worked for friends, plus the several hundred that I've handled and shot over the past 25 years...

Conclusion?

As I stated above, EITHER condition is normal.

What is NOT normal, however, is a cylinder bolt that does not lock the cylinder in place at the right time, or worse, fails to unlock.

 

[FunYet]

I have similar marks on my 442 and my 637. I think the drag marks are more apparent on these guns because they don't have the same shiny, polished surface as stainless steel guns, such as a model 60. More contrast between the "brushed" surface of the 637 (or black matt finish of the 443) and the slight burnishing that occurs when the cylinder rotates. At least that's my theory.

 

[J Miller]

WebHobbit,
Here is a scan of my 25-5. Drag ring is quite obivous. But it DOES NOT go all the way around.
I have bought other S&W's new. None of them ever made drag marks all the way around the cylinder, unless the cylinder was indexed improperly when being closed, or rotated after the bolt poped up.
I still maintain it is not normal.

 

[WebHobbit]

Nice pic.

That sure does seem to stop & start.

OK...now I've seen ONE revolver like that out of hundreds (thousands?).



All 3 of my S&Ws (2 686s and one 640) that I now own I bought new and have never mishandled them and they have rings all the way around. Doesn't seem to hurt anything or have any apparent faults.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Once again, a drag line around the entire circumference of the cylinder is NORMAL.

Abnormal operation of the cylinder bolt would be indicated if it won't release the cylinder, won't release and lock the cylinder in place, or releases too slowly.

There is a LOT of leeway in timing this particular piece.

As noted in "The S&W Revolver, a Shop Manual" by Jerry Kuhnhausen...

"GENERALLY (my emphasis), the stop (what I call the cylinder bolt above) will pop up slightly past the halfway mark as the cylinder rotates." (That's the case with YOUR gun, J Miller.)

Note the word generally.

In fact, it is my experience in working with an examining several hundred S&W revolvers closely, that the cylinder bolt will often pop up well before the halfway point, or as late as the point where the cylinder is almost fully rotated.

In several of the illustrations in Kuhnhausen's book you can see full-length drag lines between notches in the cylinder, notably on pages 14 and 17 in the 1990 printing by VSP publishers.

If this were an abnormal situation, Kuhnhausen would address it on page 35, "Stop Timing Check."

Yet, he doesn't, and in fact on page 35 one illustration shows a 5-screw with a beautiful, full-length drag line.

If this IS an abnormal condition, as claimed, then S&W has put out several million defective Hand Ejectors over the past 100 years.

 

[J Miller]

There is a way to handle most any revolver that will prevent this drag line from going all the way around the cylinder.
That is, if the gun is mechanically sound. I agree with Mike when he said, there is a lot of variation in the bolt timeing between guns of the same make, and guns of other brands.
But that doesn't create the drag mark all the way around the cylinder.

Besides the 25-5 pictured, which I bought new and UN-marked, I have a much older, 1956 S&W Mdl 28 that does have a light drag mark all the way around the cylinder. NOT from normal use, but because who ever had it before me opened and closed the cylinder incorrectly. Therefore causing the problem. Since I have had this revolver the drag mark has become much more obvious, but only in the area where the bolt drags on the cylinder during normal operation. The 360* drag mark has never increased. Sorry no pic.

If one takes a S&W, or any 6 shot DA revolver, and cradles it in his/her left hand with the cylinder open, holding the middle finger of the left hand through the frame opening, in the flute on the far side of the cylinder, and the thumb in the flute on the opposite side, then holds the cylinder in place while pivoting it up and into the frame, it will index with the bolt in the notch every time.
This is what I do. You saw the pic, NO 360* DRAG MARK!

If you simply close the cylinder, and do not pay attention to indexing it, then rotate it till the bolt locks into the notch, you, not the gun are creating the drag mark. This is true of S&W's, Colt's, and others.

I have owned numerous S&W's, a couple of Colts, and several Dan Wessons. All bought new and UN-marked. Other than the drag line left by the proper mechanical functioning of the locking bolt, there was no 360* drag line on any of them.

Conversly most of the used revolvers, DA as well as SA I have bought have have had 360* drag marks.

Let me rephrase my comment.
Drag marks that go ALL the way around the cylinder may be common, but they are not normal in a revolver in proper mechanical condition.

If it was normal, then all my guns would have full circle drag marks reguardless of how carefull I treat them.
I'm not a fanatic about how I treat my guns, you can see that in the pic of my 25-5. But, I detest 360* drag marks.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I agree with Mike when he said, there is a lot of variation in the bolt timeing between guns of the same make, and guns of other brands.

But that doesn't create the drag mark all the way around the cylinder."

As I've said now 3 times, yes, it can.

I've seem more than one new, factory functional S&W revolver where the cylinder bolt pops up with the bolt overlapping the locking notch in the cylinder.

Instant 360 deg. drag mark.

While that's uncommon, it's far from rare.

Quite frankly, though, if I were to encouner that situation in a new gun intended for defensive purposes, I'd replace the cylinder bolt with one with a longer point. That's cutting it just a little too close for my liking.

On a target revolver, fine. But in a defensive gun, as the hand wears, it can cause problems.

 

[WebHobbit]

If one takes a S&W, or any 6 shot DA revolver, and cradles it in his/her left hand with the cylinder open, holding the middle finger of the left hand through the frame opening, in the flute on the far side of the cylinder, and the thumb in the flute on the opposite side, then holds the cylinder in place while pivoting it up and into the frame, it will index with the bolt in the notch every time.
This is what I do. You saw the pic, NO 360* DRAG MARK!

Well, crap ya learn something new everyday! I guess all these years I been doing it wrong! No one ever told me to pay any attention to that aspect. I always just closed it and then turned it in the frame until it locked.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Webhobbit,

Unless I'm just pissing into the wind and everyone is ignoring what I'm saying here, do not be surprised at all if, even if you handle your revolver as indicated, you STILL get a full drag line around the cylinder.

I have always aligned cylinder so that a chamber is in the correct position when I snap the action shut.

I don't rotate the cylinder.

Yet, most of my guns STILL have the full drag line around the entire cylinder.

What is so difficult to understand about this being a normal operating condition for many, if not most, S&W revolver?

 

[Tamara]

I have always aligned cylinder so that a chamber is in the correct position when I snap the action shut.

I'm usually too busy attempting to shave times off my reloads to do this, however I always pay the owner of an older Smith the courtesy of closing the cylinder in such a fashion if I am inspecting his gun at a show...

 

[Mike Irwin]

Tams,

It's very easy to align the cylinder properly when closing it, even during a speed reload.

I've been doing it for the better part of 20 years now.

 

[Tamara]

I wish I had your hand-eye coordination, then.

(Some folks tell me ice skating is easy, too...)

 

[J Miller]

Mike,
Please forgive me if I made the impression that I am ignoring what you are saying. I'm not.

It's just that from experaince that I have had with 10 S&W's, 2 Colts, 3 Dan Wessons,and an H&R Sportsman DA .22, (all but 4 bought new), I am having great difficulty beliving it.
I have never bought a NEW S&W that did this.
I was tought to pay attention to how I opened and closed the cylinder on my DA revolvers. And since doing that I have never had a NEW one develop a 360* ring on the cylinder.

Even when I shot the early IPSC matches with my MDL28's, 25-2, Python and Dick Special, I always closed the cylinder as I described in the earlier post. Never did I have a revolver develope a 360* ring. And my speed load was fast enough to put me in Class A.
This was the top class of the regular shooters. I was beating out auto shooters more often than not. Still no 360* rings on my guns.

Maybe I have just been lucky, or maybe I am so anally picky I pick guns that don't do this. Your guess is as good as mine.

But from my experiance, if you use the method I was tought, and don't rotate the cylinder after the bolt has popped up, you won't get the drag mark all the way around the cylinder.

 

[Jim K]

The "halfway" drag mark is normal on an S&W and does no harm. It is not normal on a Colt and will result in serious gouges since the Colt cylinder bolt spring (factory) is much stiffer than the S&W spring. Colts should be timed to drop the bolt in the leade.

Mike, I bet I have handled as many or more S&Ws as you have and a ring fully around the cylinder is not right. Further, I have never seen a gun do that unless it has been seriously tampered with or worn to the point where parts replacement is needed.

There is some leeway, as in anything mechanical, and that is what Kuhnhausen was talking about, but I doubt he meant that the bolt should drop right at the previous notch.

Jim

 

[WebHobbit]

Webhobbit,

Unless I'm just pissing into the wind and everyone is ignoring what I'm saying here, do not be surprised at all if, even if you handle your revolver as indicated, you STILL get a full drag line around the cylinder.

Mike -- I was not ignoring you at all. Sorry I didn't respond to what you said. Actually I am HOPING your theory is correct! Otherwise I have revolvers with a few "issues".

 

[WebHobbit]

Well, **** ya learn something new everyday! I guess all these years I been doing it wrong! No one ever told me to pay any attention to that aspect. I always just closed it and then turned it in the frame until it locked.

I used the word c-r-a-p & it was changed to *****?

I didn't think that was a "bad word".

 

[Mike Irwin]

Sorry, Jim, I disagree with you, and as I've noted, if Kuhnhausen thought it was a problem he would mention it in his book. He mentions just about every other problem endemic to a Smith & Wesson revolver.

As I have repeatedly stated, a full-round cylinder drag line NOT uncommon and it is NOT an indication of something being wrong with the gun.

If it were an indication of something being wrong with the gun, then S&W has produced a LOT of defective revolvers over the years.

I've worked on guns that that the owners purchased new and have never been opened that have had the drag line around the entire circumference of the cylinder.

Bolt timing is correct, functioning is perfect, and there is no undue wear.

To once again quote Kuhnhausen, "GENERALLY (my emphasis), the stop (what I call the cylinder bolt above) will pop up slightly past the halfway mark as the cylinder rotates."

Note the use of the word generally.

As I've continually noted, there is GREAT leeway in how the release of the cylinder bolt is timed from gun to gun.

As long as the bolt doesn't release too soon and prevent the cylinder from turning, and as long as the bolt locks the cylinder correctly at the end of the cycle, FUNCTIONING IS CORRECT.

Please also note the illustrations in Kuhnhausen's book which show full circumference cylinder drag lines.

 

[JPM70535]

I have to agree with those who believe that the ring around the cylinder is the norm. I have been shooting and handling S&W and Colt revolvers for more years than I care to remember and they all had this ring to some degree. My solution to this cosmetic fault has been to buy stainless steel revolvers and polish the ring away when it becomes objectionable to look at. With my blue revolvers I just live with it.

 

[Kentucky Rifle]

That tiny line bothers me so little that I had to go to my *new safe and look at some revolvers to make sure it was there. It was. And the new safe is already full. I'm going to be forced to buy a "little" safe just for my knives! (My wife just rolled her eyes and gave me a "profane" hand sign. She thinks (maybe she KNOWS) that I went around the bend *just a little.

KR

 

[HerbG]

"I have always aligned cylinder so that a chamber is in the correct position when I snap the action shut."

----------------------

"Correct?" According to whom? I can find nothing in S&W literature that refers to this procedure, so I assume it's the writer's opinion regarding correctness. Frankly, I don't care one whit if the line is complete, partial, or some other variation. It's perfectly normal with every S&W I've ever fired to have a drag line on the cylinder. If somebody is all hung up over the line, just send me your defective S&W's and I'll happily ignore the "problem."