Scary Conversation with professor today

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Doesn't soft armor have a shelf life? You keep in the fridge or just replace it every 3 years to 5 years? How does that qualify as an investment? To me an investment at least holds it's value over time and never deteriorates.
 
I'm gonna take a different tack here...

Start the revolution at the Universities and Colleges of this great nation and take them away from the commiepinkobastids (or dislodge a few of them anyway by making them get real jobs for a change) who seem to delight in infecting our yout' w/ collective hive-think.

The actual, rest of the American people who have real jobs, be they rural or urban, taxpayers or bureaucrats, are mostly fine and usually well on the right road; "non-violence, lets vote on it, kick booty when its gotta be done"... oh there's a few pockets of insurgents in the inner-cities who deal drugs and violence and always will... avoid those spots or let a free market ruin their economic stranglehold or rewards...

Keep working on those elected to remember the Constitution, vote the wrong ones out of office, get some of the right kind running things here and there (NH and the Free State thing come to mind)...

SW border is going to go native american/spanish speaking... learn the language... they're great people who have the same dreams as most Americans, thats why they're coming here folks, same as our great great grandpappies... heck visit their country; beautiful land, history and people, find a villa on one of the coasts... become a gardner there ;) for a spell. Just like the Pacific Rim's going Asian... deal with it.

Raise your kids to respect their elders and common-sense laws, instill some morals, teach them proper history, readin' 'ritin' and 'rithmatic... taught to the tune of a hick'ry stick... take 'em to Church once in awhile (or more or less as suits ya)
Teach them to enjoy shooting sports... and WHY its important!

I remember my Dad and Uncles saying the doomsday thing back in '68 when I was 13; Kennedy/King, riots, the GCA, anti-war protestors... they're glad they were wrong too. Certain things HAVE come to pass that aren't all that pleasing (a certain 8 year presidential period comes to mind), but all in all, change comes... slowly mostly. Its inevitable. Like those scared of guns and gunowners.

'Sides that, I always wanted to be a University President for a day. Problem is, my hair's too short (and grey) I bathe regularly, and I got a job already... but Comes the Revolution... start there. Please!
 
Doesn't soft armor have a shelf life? You keep in the fridge or just replace it every 3 years to 5 years? How does that qualify as an investment? To me an investment at least holds it's value over time and never deteriorates.
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If you were a manufacturer in a litigious society selling a safety product you'd probably reccomend frequent replacement of armor both as insurance against lawsuits if a vest fails to stop a round and likely to encourage people to protect themselves with new, as opposed to possibly worn out, equipment. Vests can last a lot longer than 5 years and retain their protective properties. That said, yeah, I'd tend to replace my armor periodically, like I would replace other items my life or livelihood depended on. If you don't like the word "investment" you can use the word "insurance." Of course, the first time you experience a save and get your life back for the cost of a few hundred measely dollars, well, I'd say the ROI on that one was pretty darned good! :D

Anything will deteriorate and lose value with enough time. Sooner or later that Van Goh will crumble into dust, or gold will simply be eclipsed by some other material. At one time both aluminum and iron were more precious than gold, platinum is today. I can remember when gold could be had for $200 or $300 an ounce. It's worth more than that now, last I heard, but you can be sure that if you buy now at a moment of peak value it will be a losing gamble in the long run as the price settles back down. That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is if I'm starving I am not going to sell my can of beans for all the gold in the world. Of course, somebody just might try and shoot you to take your can of beans. I invest in offensive and defensive technologies because they're more honest than a lot of other investments one could make. I think I can find 30 to 50 cents a day to squirel away to replace my armor when I feel it's time.

Actually, here's an idea that's fresh in my mind from another post. I save $20 by changing my car's oil myself. I change my oil about 4 times a year. That's $80 a year. Over 5 years that's $400, or easily enough to buy a level IIIA vest. Spend an hour once every three months and get a free vest every 5 years and you can call it whatever you want.

If you keep your old vests you will have a stash of flak vests to hand out if things really do ever take a turn for the worse.
 
Some days I'm optimistic about a new conservative swing in politics that we may be beginning. Other days...like today for instance, I'm pessimistic about our chances of survival as a country with its current downward spiral. It may take a war, civil or world war 3, to get us back on track.

It's not good to be pessimistic when you're 24.
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Aquapong, I was 19 when I began to fret about the path our country is spiraling down. Now at 20 I have given up hope and just making sure that I will be prepared when it goes down.

I aint buying up land with caves and stockpiling rations and weapons, but simply making sure that I have supplies at a rally point and gas and firearms (if need be) to get me there and keep me and mine safe.

I dont look foward to the next 10-15 yrs. I see it getting worse, and when Bush43 is elected again to ride again on the "Freedom Eroding Express" to be followed by Hillary, that is when I will truely worry about the SHTF.

Damn, I sound like I invest in tinfoil.:eek: :scrutiny:
 
Hey Gunsmith

Hey Gunsmith:

I'd really like to know your source of information for the Burning Man "shootings". I know some of the people who run the event, and have never heard anything about that story.

I also know that while some of the BM folks can be a little annoying, overall the event has done an excellent job leaving the Black Rock Desert "without a trace".

Help me get to the bottom of this, please!


Thanks,

Lupine
 
I'll add that no one is going 'steal' our water :scrutiny:

within the next fifty years I see nano-technology and/or genetic manipulation coming to a head with computer technology. Artificial life, mechanical organisms, a whole new slew of things to worry about, and one step closer to our self destructive ambitions drawing the curtain on the whole show.
 
I had an old government employee tell me once that he didn't see the big deal about "gun nuts" and how they thought that they could defend themselves against the government. After all, he said, the government has tanks and planes and stuff and what can a citizen do against that? Well...a citizen can set up an ambush and kill a leader. A citizen can poison military foodstuffs. A citizen can contaminate fuel. A citizen can befriend members of an oppressive military and get information from them.

There are enough people in THIS nation who are prepared, even in small ways, for this eventuality that I really pity anyone who goes in against them. Lose? I'm sure most would on an individual basis, but at what cost to the government that they are fighting?
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"Those who give up essential liberty to secure a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

We'll fight a war sometime in the next 50 years because our future oppressive government will divide our populace into two categories;

a) Those who believe the government has the right to control their actions to protect their best interests (sheeple).

b) Those who understand it is the right of the people to decide for themselves what their best interests really are.

We will fight a war because our government will attempt to take away our liberties in extreme. They already infringe upon our rights as it is. Eventually it will reach a boiling point and we'll revolt.
 
Hey Guys, please read my post again.

But Hal does have a point about the potential of a conflict over water. And may well occur here in the US when the Western States try to make a grab for the Great Lakes.__________________
Blackcloud Six

I was quoting a post from Blackcloud Six. I'm not in Kali.
LCSNM The NM stands for NEW MEXICO You know that State between Texas and Arizona, below Colorado, just above Texas and Mexico. 47th State of the Union.


My comment: We are drafting our plans now, was stated with a 'smiley'

No way anyone is going to steal water from the Great Lakes!

We have enough problems ,with the Enviros , restricting Rio Grande Water for a damn fish, a minnow at that.

I served 24 years in the Military to protect this great Country of ours. Hope the Socialists don't take it away from us. They can only do that if we let them. Keep an eye on the aledged representatives we voted for......
 
The internet and now especially wireless coms are our friends.

Business depends heavily on these technologies and the .gov could not just shut it all down to thwart the "rebels" without crashing .biz pretty hard.

This is why they want backdoors into all the new com techs. With multi Giga-hertz computers and 128bit encryption, secure coms are very possible.


Most of the petty tyrants think that they will be able to remain "safe" due to their police protecton, etc.

Not understanding that this type of protection is predicated on the assumption that the person wishing to do you harm also wishes to avoid harm to himself.

If someone is not afraid to die, they can take anyone they wish with them.

Pretty grim, but if the worst happens, liberty will win only if those who resist are willing to do so at any cost.


Which is why I think it is incredibly unlikely - although the 1% of 1% numbers are compelling.

Those pukes in D.C. sure showed how utterly powerless the .gov is against a slow and methodical sniper attack. As was said, these guys were idiot joy riders shooting good people for kicks.

Oh, how fun it would be to be the "enforcer" of the new power. No thanks.
 
Will we see a conflict (SHTF) scenario, or will we all achive spiritual enlightnment? I don't know, but I'm well *prepared* for both :cool:


Do not make the fallicy of deluding yourself into thinking the US military has the upper hand.

There are over 80 MILLION known firearms owners. There may be many more. I'm a bit more optomistic, and figure we can count on at least fully HALF of them.

That is Fourty Million Rifles!

One helicopter versus three guys, yeah, there going down. But one hielo versus say FOUR HUNDRED guys with rifles? My money's not on the hielo in that situation.


Lastly, let me remind any perspective Tyrants that the military are not the only ones who have (fully legal btw) access to FLIR.


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And there are others. Many others. Who will approprate or otherwise use their own technology as nessicary to defend this country against all enemies, both forign and domestic
 
As I see it, a band of Americans waging guerilla warfare against an unjust govrenment might have a chance because of one difference.

That difference is that the government controlled military with all of that high priced, high powered smart technology would be using it on home soil.

It's one thing to travel to distant exotic lands and kill strangers. It's a totally different thing to fly across town and blow up people you know.

It's one thing to have all of your gear manufactured somewhere else and then transported in for resupply. A conflict on American soil would directly involve the chain of resupply.

Do you expect the French to start shipping in MREs?
Will the British supply the troops with 5.56 & 7.62 ammo? Or will PMC become the issue military ammo?
Who's gonna make the repair parts for Hummers when the plant is overrun by "rebels"?
Who's going to refine all of that middle eastern oil into fuel for tanks?
Are were going to start importing BDUs from the Kathy Lee's 3rd world sweatshops?
Will Germany be willing to house all of the POWs on their soil?
Will Israel be willing to sell us back some of the aircraft parts we sold them?

From a logistics standpoin way on home soil would be a nightmare.

How will you tell the difference between Good Guys and Bad Guys?
How many people do you know who already own more correct issue military gear than the average soldier will ever see?
 
I'm holding out for a military coup if our self-appointed masters turn against the population. Our military is us. They have taken an oath to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". .
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I disagree.

I have spent time in uniform, and I have seen how senior leaders, having spent 20+ years in what is basically a totalitarian, authoritarian environment, are comfortable with the concepts of regulating every damn thing that moves and dictating other peoples behavior -- military or civilian. The ideal of the citizen-soldier, sworn to the constitution, is somewhat at variance with reality. A significant portion of the military's senior leadership is a highly bureaucratized, highly corporatized institution that, in my experience, would likely be comfortable with smacking down those uppity little domestic terrorists.

Make no mistake: if a domestic pro-liberty, pro-Constitution insurgency does not have media support, then it would be painted as movement of militia nuts, racists, gun nuts, whackos, etc., but most of all, they will be painted as Terrorists. Timothy McVeigh appeared to be a normal Midwest white boy, but the media heaped all sorts of bile on him and led the people in a 2 Minute Hate everytime his name was mentioned.

INteresting hypothetical, though. The only way a domestic insurgency would get off the ground and gain any popular support would be to target government offices -- not to cause casualties, but to cause govt workers to be too scared to show up for work. Americans are very frustrated with the govt, and if govt workers were too scared to show up, it wouldn't get much done, eh?

STANDARD DISCLAIMER: nothing above is meant to encourage or solicit such action, just hypothetical intellectual discussion, etc., etc.
 
There is one thing about guerilla warfare that hasn't been brought up, and really needs to be. Guerilla fighters die - a lot. The U.S. lost something like 60,000 men in Vietnam, the guerilla fighters lost over a million. In Mogadishu, the guerilla forces there, even though they vastly outnumbered the U.S. forces, suffered far more casualties than the U.S forces did.

This is proven true far more often than not, and is especially true when dealing with highly trained, very well equipped U.S. forces - guerilla fighters have to be willing to give their lives, in vast numbers, to have any kind of an effect, much less "win the war".

The person who said that winning a war was greatly because of the will to win is right - however, any side conducting a guerilla conflict has to have much more "will to win" than the other side, because it's going to cost them more. By becoming a guerilla fighter, you'd likely be giving up the ability to support your family, and painting targets on all their heads. Would you be willing to sit by and watch your family be raped, starved, and killed to win the conflict you're fighting? That's the kind of "will to win" most guerilla fighters have to have, the war they are fighting has to be the most important thing to them, more important than their lives, the lives of their loved ones, or anything else.

I don't think the people of the U.S. have that kind of will. The vast majority of the people in the U.S. are far, far more interested in living comfortable lives than in preserving their rights, freedoms, and liberties. That includes gun owners. While there may be enough people willing to give up everything to form a serious core of guerilla fighters, they will not win the support of the people of this country, if anything, the majority of the people of this country will be extremely hostile to them, because the fighters are messing with what they value most - their ability to live a comfortable life. Face it, folks, the war for the hearts and minds of the American people has been lost a long time ago. Liberty is not something that the vast majority of the people in this country are willing to place above their comfort.
 
This may have been brought up elsewhere in the thread, but something to remember about any potential future uprising is just how fagile our infrastructure is. Scare the sheeple into staying home, interrupt shipping by truck and rail and watch the cities literally dissolve in riots. That demands federal and state resources be applied. Monetary, medical and military. That application leaves those forces, as well as hard targets, even more vulnerable to guerrilla activity.

It WILL happen in our lifetimes. There are simply too many angry people looking to lash out at something. Some of them have legitimate reasons and some of them simply want something for nothing, or have been brainwashed into the belief they are "owed" something. Unfortunately the fact this won't be a "stand-up war' like the War Between The States isn't the only important detail. Another is that there won't be any "stand-up victory", either. The country will turn into a quagmire of hot spots and government authoritarian control.

But hey, nothing lasts forever, right... :rolleyes:
 
Some great points have been brought up so far.

2Amd poses an interesting thought with his "no stand up victory." So what exactly would a revolt be looking to achieve? Would we all flock to a section of states and attempt to secede? Regime change by force? Rewrite parts of the Constitution (personally I believe it should be more difficult to pass laws and require 2/3 vote)?

I agree with those who have said a war would be more like what the IRA does, but on a larger scale. I could talk about the snipers and how effective they were or how fragile the infrastructure is, but that's all been done above. Even if it was a guerilla movement, at some point we would have to become a legitimate entity in the form of a political party or simply a group of states that secedes.
 
I'll add that no one is going 'steal' our water
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Tag, you noticed the water level in the great lakes is way down over the past few years? I think somebody's stealing it. I just don't know who.

:)

Regards.
 
For those who think US troops wouldn't fight US civvies...

What about the UN troops? At any given time a few hundred thousand UN/foreign troops are on US soil w/ the fed.gov's permission. A number of fairly large bases have been given to foreign troops as well. And of course we've already given control of quite a bit of land to the UN in the form of "biospheres" aka national parks. This link leads to a map of all the areas designated as UN biospheres. I don't have an online referrence for the numbers of troops, but I've seen extensive amounts of paper documentation on it, mostly clippings of stories from the AP and other large news sources.
 
Ryder wrote:
That's not what I recall. The mosque building was declared off-limits and never targeted. Everybody that ran into it lived. Did you not have the speakers turned on?
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I've only seen it once, and that was several months ago. We may be thinking of different videos, or I may be getting the buildings mixed up. Regardless, they did blow up a building.
 
Balog claims:
What about the UN troops? At any given time a few hundred thousand UN/foreign troops are on US soil w/ the fed.gov's permission. A number of fairly large bases have been given to foreign troops as well.
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I find the above claim very, very difficult to believe. I'm aware that many, many foreign soldiers, sailors and airman attend US Military training schools in the services (and that could easily add upt to a 100,000 or so) but I'm sorry I just don't buy the bases claim. Please provide a cite.
 
Werewolf: not trying to be rude or anything, but perhaps you should try reading the post a little more carefully before responding. Let me repost it with emphasis added.
I don't have an online referrence for the numbers of troops, but I've seen extensive amounts of paper documentation on it, mostly clippings of stories from the AP and other large news sources.
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A friend of mine literally has a box or two of xeroxed press clippings about foreign troops in the US. I suppose if I had a couple days with nothing better to do I could scan them all, but even then I can't afford to buy the bandwidth to host them. I'll ask him where he got them all, IIRC it was from an older retired woman who's devoted her life to gathering and distributing info on this sort of thing. She might have a website you could visit. But as I've said, I've only seen actual, physical news articles.
 
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