School a noob on scope setup

[Odd Job]

I am going to replace the scope on my R55 benchmark (.22LR) because the current one is somewhat murky. It is a Rhino 6-24x50 and I will be looking to get at least a 9-24x40 of higher quality. Maybe a Sightron or a Weaver...
Anyway I shoot from 25 yards to 50 yards currently but I will do a small amount of 100 yard shooting in the future.

Here is my setup currently: I shoot from the bench with a bipod and a rear sandbag with a suppressor:



Yesterday at 25 yards with Eley Tenex I got quite nice groups (5 shots each):



Under the same conditions I then shot another 3 spots (5 shots each) at 50 yards and got this:



That flier on the first spot is all me, but I have to tell you this scope is really murky and it is more apparent at 50 yards. Anyway scope issue or not I can do better.
By the way I am using genuine Thompson Center Weaver style mounts and Maxima medium height rings. I don't like vertical split rings, but that's another issue. I will replace with the same quality or better horizontal split rings.

Here's my question: I understand the dropped groups, but not the left-right shift. My assumption is that the scope is not parallel to the barrel. If that's the case I need to know how to sort this before I get the new scope.
I let a different shooter try it and he got the same groups. That same shooter fired his rifle at 25 yards when I was doing mine and he moved with me to the 50 yard range and didn't have any drift, all he had was some drop (that was with a top end Daystate rifle).

So how do I fix that drift?

 

[Billcurtis]

I assume no wind from front left, then you need to zero scope for 50yd. Looks like 4 clicks up and 8 left. Then after you have it zero at 50 reshoot your 25 it will be slightly high and right on. A good scope will be clear and click repeatable, cheap scope can work ok but sighting it in will be harder.
Bill...

 

[allaroundhunter]

First off, was that scope installed by a qualified gunsmith? If not, that could be the beginning of your problems.

Secondly, as far as "murky" goes, higher magnifications are not as clear as lower.

Sent from my HTC One X

 

[MtnCreek]

Sounds like parallax.

 

[jerkface11]

First off, was that scope installed by a qualified gunsmith? If not, that could be the beginning of your problems.

Really we have to pay someone a $40 bench fee just to get a scope mounted now?

 

[MrDig]

First off, was that scope installed by a qualified gunsmith?

Huh? I have installed scopes for years now. Generally I have some tweaking to do when I go to the range the first time, but that would happen even if I went to a "qualified Gunsmith"
So why should we shell out that money when either way we are going to have to adjust and sight in anyway?
This may be drifting the thread I really have no answer for the OP, I just take issue with the idea that we need a Gunsmith to do anything to the gun. In particular scope mounting.

 

[jrdolall]

Dead on at 25 does not mean dead on at 50. I would zero at 50 and you should be good, though slightly high, at 25. It looks like the gun is shooting slightly right at 25 yards(of the 25 shots maybe 15 are slightly right of bullseye) and this was magnified at 50 yards. I doubt you have a scope problem as far as your accuracy but a better scope might be clearer.

And I have NEVER had a scope mounted by a gunsmith unless I had to have a gun drilled for a scope.

 

[Odd Job]

Yep, I attached the scope myself.
I will try what you guys say: I will zero this for 50 and then after that try it on 25.
Thanks.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Huh? I have installed scopes for years now. Generally I have some tweaking to do when I go to the range the first time, but that would happen even if I went to a "qualified Gunsmith"
So why should we shell out that money when either way we are going to have to adjust and sight in anyway?
This may be drifting the thread I really have no answer for the OP, I just take issue with the idea that we need a Gunsmith to do anything to the gun. In particular scope mounting.

I ask because for precision shooting, even a slight "cant" that is present when a scope is installed can cause serious problems when you try to use the windage and elevation adjustments. The OP said he was a "noob", so I was just throwing out an idea that if the scope has some cant in how it was mounted, it could have added to the group shift if he had adjusted. I know, cant will not affect too much at 50 yards unless it is noticable. So, Odd Job, do you notice any cant to the reticle? Or did you make any adjustments when you moved to the 50 yard target?

I am not saying having a gunsmith zero the gun, I am saying install it. I install my scopes on all of my hunting rifles, but on my most recent rifle that I intend to take out well past 500 yards where any cant in the reticle whatsoever can mean a miss, I took it to a gunsmith who could do a better job than I. No, I was not trying to insult the OP.

 

[Odd Job]

So, Odd Job, do you notice any cant to the reticle? Or did you make any adjustments when you moved to the 50 yard target?

The reticle is level and I didn't make any adjustment (except the adjustable objective of course).

No, I was not trying to insult the OP

I don't feel insulted at all, there is no problem there

 

[beatledog7]

Dead on at 25 does not mean dead on at 50. I would zero at 50 and you should be good, though slightly high, at 25.

Wouldn't a .22LR bullet from a rifle generally still be rising at 25 yards? If so, a 50-yd zero should net a slightly low impact at 25 yds.

 

[hentown]

I want to be extra-careful and not insult any gunsmiths, but I agree that having a scope mounted by a gunsmith is nonsensical. Mounting a scope has nothing to do with smithing. I can't fathoim that a gunsmith could do a better job of leveling a scope than can I.

 

[kcshooter]

I agree that having a scope mounted by a gunsmith is nonsensical. Mounting a scope has nothing to do with smithing. I can't fathoim that a gunsmith could do a better job of leveling a scope than can I.

As long as you have lapping tools, leveling tools, and a calibrated torque wrench, you won't need a gunsmith. However, if you don't, a gunsmith is cheaper than the tools.

At some point, the number of rifles you have makes the investment into the tools worth the expense.

 

[TonyAngel]

Oddjob, are you sure that there is no cant in your scope? I'm just asking because just eye balling it is an iffy way to test for cant.

Another thing that comes to mind is your scope, or it's adjustment. When you set the parallax, are you just dialing the adjustment knob until some mark on the scope tells you that your parallax is set right or are you actually testing for parallax error and dialing until the error is gone?

 

[Odd Job]

I dial it while I am looking through the scope.
I will check the scope out again carefully on Sunday, the club has run out of Tenex but I can get RWS R50 and get some more spots done with that...

 

[TonyAngel]

Odd, I'm just asking because many don't understand what they are doing when they dial in the parallax adjustment. It isn't just a matter of picking the right setting or dialing until the image looks clear to you. You also have to make sure that all images (including the reticle) remain on the same plane.

What I usually do is put my rifle on a rest (both front and back) and put the cross hairs on the target. Then I'll look through the scope without disturbing the rifle and move my eye around. You want your scope adjusted so that as you move your eye around, the cross hairs do no move off of the target. When the cross hairs do not move around over the target, the parallax adjustment is set right.

 

[Walkalong]

Bingo, and if the eyepiece is set right, the target will be clear. ("You also have to make sure that all images (including the reticle) remain on the same plane.")

Too many people use the parallax adjustment as a "focus", which it is not.

 

[Walkalong]

This Simmons is a very clear scope for the money at its regular price, and steal at the sale price. It will focus at 25 yards for .22 LR shooting. I bought it for informal target shooting with my TS .22 LR AR Upper. I have not tested the tracking, but for shooting set targets at close range it isn't real important. If you are pinching pennies, it is worth a serious look.

 

[IdealFugacity]

OP,

Please let me know how this turns out for you and how it is resolved, whether by re-sighting at 50 yards or if you have to make scope installation adjustments.

I have a Nikon Prostaff Rimfire 4 x 32 scope mounted on a UTG Leapers mount. I did not: lap, torque, or use special leveling tools (I did tape a cross using a level on the shed and made my reticule as level as i could...but in retrospect not sure if the gun was truly vertical and more than likely it was off by at least a little)

I too zeroed my gun at 25 yards...truly tack driving...and then at 50 yards i got this group:



5 shots in a nice little hole but I had to leave the range immediately afterwards, and with 6 weeks before my next visit to the range it is truly bothering me that it is off. I posted a similar thread to yours here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=672816

I think a re-zero at 50 may prove that I just had a parallax error at 25 (it is non-AO, and designed to be "parallax free" at 50 yards though I didn't do the eye test.)

 

[allaroundhunter]

Ideal, was there any wind? Your group looks perfectly normal for a 25 yard zero, just with a tad bit of right to left wind.

Sent from my HTC One X

 

[IdealFugacity]

Unsure. And the more I look at the pic the more I realize how very many factors could contribute to a 5-shot grouping and it's really only off by .5". I'm not super experienced so I'm probably making much ado about nothing. Still genuinely interested in how this post here turns out, and I will definitely be updating on my situation in September when I get to go back, hopefully on a windless day!

I probably got way too over-confident in my ability to put a bullet thru a target when I destroyed every bullseye on the 25-yard target once I got my gun zeroed

 

[TonyAngel]

If you really want to see what's going on, shoot at 50 yards with a rifle/ammo combo that you know (as best you can) shoots well. Put out a couple of wind flags and just take note of how the wind affects the point of impact.

You might also be surprised by some of the freaky things that the wind does and realize that some of those fliers that you got weren't fliers at all. During one match, I took note of a guys flags on the other end of the shooting line. His 10 yard flag was blowing toward the southwest and his 40 yard flag was standing straight up. Go figure.

 

[Odd Job]

This Simmons is a very clear scope for the money at its regular price, and steal at the sale price. It will focus at 25 yards for .22 LR shooting. I bought it for informal target shooting with my TS .22 LR AR Upper. I have not tested the tracking, but for shooting set targets at close range it isn't real important. If you are pinching pennies, it is worth a serious look.

I am willing to go to $500 max for the scope. I have it narrowed down to a Weaver V24 or a Sightron SII. Most of the feedback I get on other forums say the Sightron is the better scope. Just wandering if anyone has experience with either one. They are both 6-24x40...

 

[TonyAngel]

If you're talking about a Sightron SII Big Sky, then yes. It's a better scope. If you're talking about a standard SII, I'd go with the Weaver.

 

[R H Clark]

Just wanted to add that if you are just shooting paper,and you want to get a new scope,you might want to look into a fixed target scope.Take a look at the Weavers.

You will get a better quality in a fixed power 24X for the price than something in the 6X-24X range.You can get good quality in a high power variable but you are going to have to pay big $$$.