School marksmanship team barred from shooting competition by their own principa?

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WaltherWombat

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This was kind of depressing:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/education/wake/story/1030367.html

For Robert Lumley, the decision to bar his East Wake High School club marksmanship team from a statewide shooting tournament was as arresting as a shotgun blast.

Less than a day before the March 15 district round of the decades-old N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission competition, one of East Wake's principals, with the support of the area superintendent who oversees that school, stopped the team from participating.

The reason: Ammo and students don't mix, the school officials said.

The East Wake decision nullified months of practice by Lumley, a 17-year-old senior, and the rest of the 16-member marksmanship and orienteering team -- an offshoot of the school-approved FFA club, formerly known as the Future Farmers of America.

There's quite a bit more in the article, which is actually quite balanced. I don't know that anyone has asked the principal what the point of having a marksmanship team is if you don't let them attend competitions, but it's early in the news cycle yet.
 
Zero Tolerance= Zero IQ. Just another bureaucratic CYA.

The Obama Cartoon on their main page was pretty funny.
 
I was kind of floored by this, especially it being from Zebulon.

Indeed the Obama Cartoon was funny, wasn't expecting that from the N&O.
 
Zero tolerance policies are like mandatory sentencing in the justice system.

It provides an excuse for the people we pay to make decisions to be stupid.

I hope he is brought up in a personal lawsuit and is sued.
 
East Wake High School - Home of the Warriors
5101 Rolesville Road, Wendell, NC 27591
Phone: (919) 365-2625
Fax: (919) 365-2628

Warriors...humf...some warrior would tell the kid he can't shoot trap.
 
The reason: Ammo and students don't mix, the school officials said.


Funny...

I know a school board member that routinely buys .22 rimfire for his 7 year old son.

Mixes pretty well around here.


-- John
 
What a complete waste of time and resources!!! There are many great educators out there who love to cultivate a love of learning in their pupils and then there are all the rest of the public school districts' paycheck receivers and their administraitors (not a typo.)

A few public education quotes:


"The education of all children, from the moment that they can get along without a mother's care, shall be in state institutions at state expense."
-- Karl Marx

"Every child in America entering school at the age of five is insane because he comes to school with certain allegiances toward our Founding Fathers, toward his parents, toward belief in a supernatural being, toward sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity... It's up to you to make all these sick children well."
-- Chester Pierce - Harvard University Psychology professor.

"The more subsidized it is, the less free it is. What is known as `free education' is the least free of all, for it is a state-owned institution; it is socialized education _ just like socialized medicine or the socialized post office _ and cannot possibly be separated from political control."

-- Frank Chodorov, "Why Free Schools Are Not Free," 1948

"Wherever is found what is called a paternal government, there is found state education. It has been discovered that the best way to insure implicit obedience is to commence tyranny in nursery."
-- Benjamin Disraeli, British Prime Minister

"In all countries, in all centuries, the primary reason for government to set up schools is to undermine the politically weak by convincing their children that the leaders are good and their policies are wise. The core is religious intolerance. The sides simply change between the Atheists, Catholics, Protestants, Unitarians, etc., depending whether you are talking about the Soviet Union, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, America, etc. A common second reason is to prepare the boys to go to war and the girls to cheer them on."

-- Marshall Fritz, founder of the Separation of School & State Alliance. Christian Education Symposium - Homeschool Christian.com on June 3, 1999.

"Government will not fail to employ education, to strengthen its hands, and perpetuate its institutions."
-- William Godwin, Enquiry Concerning Political Justice (1793).

"Men had better be without education than be educated by their rulers."
-- Thomas Hodgskin

"it is better to tolerate that rare instance of a parent's refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings by a forcible transportation and education of the infant against the will of his father."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical; even forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor whose morals he would make his pattern."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school."

-- George Bernard Shaw
Sorry for all the quotes. Just one more:

"Son, don't let your books get in the way of your education."

--my father
 
I think they should go anyway, transportation on their own and carpooling...

Give the finger to the school district. If my school tried to stop me from participating in whatever I want to do off campus, I'd be really,
really pissed.

That's a problem we are facing nowadays. Schools and colleges are trying to reach beyond their area of authority and control students when they are off campus.
 
Guys, this already happened. They got the news on a Friday, not this Friday.

For Lumley, months of hard training made the last-minute prohibition difficult to accept. Barred from competing on a Friday, Lumley's first thoughts when he woke up the next day were locked on the Saturday competition.

"When I looked at the clock, it was 11 a.m.," he said. "The first thing I thought was, 'Is the tournament over yet?' "

I do like the quote from the kid's mother:
"If this was promoting violence, what about wrestling? Is that promoting hand-to-hand combat?"
 
Martha McCaskill: Principal, School of Arts, Education, and Global Studies

(919)365-2643
[email protected]

(why do I have a feeling she's the one who made this decision?)

However here are the other principals:

Sebastian C. Shipp: Principal, School of Engineering Systems

919-365-2626
[email protected]

Craig Baker: Principal, School of Health Science

[email protected]

Dr. Kristin Cuilla: Principal, School of Integrated Technology

[email protected]


Working on the Superintendent.

Edit: Why do feel the urge to quote Shakespeare? "Cry 'Havoc!' And let slip the dogs of war"
 
Dr. Adelphos John (Del) Burns: Superintendent, Wake County Public Schools

Could not find an email address, but given the others I would guess:

[email protected] Edit: (Possibly [email protected])

Central Office of Wake County Public Schools

3600 Wake Forest Road
P.O. Box 28041
Raleigh, NC 27611-8041

Phone: (919) 850-1600
Fax: (919) 850-1618
 
More from the article:

The participation of Lumley's team in the shooting tournament came to the attention of school officials when another Wake school sought permission to participate.
Seems they had been around so long as to be under the radar of the current admin.
That request drew the attention of Danny Barnes, area superintendent, and Sebastian Shipp, one of four principals at East Wake, and prompted them to review the status of Lumley's marksmanship team. This led to East Wake not being allowed to compete because of district policy.

"It's not a criticism of what the kids are trying to do," Barnes said.

Burns said these kinds of decisions are up to each principal.

At least one gun-control advocate agrees with the decision.

"The school and school board should have that right," said Roxane Kolar, executive director of North Carolinians Against Gun Violence. "You have to assume a school knows what's best for their school."

The Wildlife Commission tournament, now in its 30th year, is an incentive for middle school and high school students to participate in the hunter education course and is part of a larger effort to attract youths to hunting.
 
I think there's another angle to this story, besides the (probable) anti-gun spin.

When I read the news article last night, it seemed that this meet had not been put on the "official" school-activities list. Whether that is due to custom (they never needed it to be on there before) or oversight (the coach forgot to apply, or it's a new requirement the principal / AD forgot to advise the coach about), the bottom line is that the school could be held out to blow in the wind on a liability issue should "something happen."

That "something" could range anywhere from a bus accident on up to the anti-gun fears. And, I suspect it's enough to shut it down.

Of course, the current reading of this incident may be entirely correct--i.e., a new principal, for example, an import from the PC world....

But, it's awful, IMO, no matter the reason.

Jim H.
 
I was kind of floored by this, especially it being from Zebulon.

I don't know how long you've been away, but Raleigh is growing fast and expanding in all directions, including east. A lot of the growth in Raleigh is northerners moving south (NY, NJ, etc) for jobs in RTP. They are bringing their skills :) , their money :) , their food :) , and their attitude towards guns :(. Knightdale's just another Raleigh neighborhood, and Wendell's next.

(why do I have a feeling she's the one who made this decision?)

I don't know, why do you? Did you see anything in the article that identified the principal?

McCaskill is an old NC name, it doesn't imply much to me. She could easily be from rural NC before the influx from the North. I don't know here background at all.

Mike
 
(why do I have a feeling she's the one who made this decision?)

She does appear likely to be a native Tarheel. Hard to tell much about her politics - but I don't think she's a Chapel Hill liberal :).

McCaskill has been an assistant principal at East Wake High since 2000. Prior to that, she was an assistant principal intern and high school teacher in Pitt County and a college instructor and coach at East Carolina University.

Mike
 
(why do I have a feeling she's the one who made this decision?)

As for why you had the feeling, only you can answer that. But in the line of 4 principals, it was choice number 2, Shipp.


That request drew the attention of Danny Barnes, area superintendent, and Sebastian Shipp, one of four principals at East Wake, and prompted them to review the status of Lumley's marksmanship team.
 
She does appear likely to be a native Tarheel. Hard to tell much about her politics - but I don't think she's a Chapel Hill liberal .

This is very true. For that reason, I did not allow my own musings to cause me to only include her. I included all the principals, I would suggest letters to them all as they appeared to want to avoid being mentioned in the article.
 
I've been following this thread and before MakAttak posted the contact info, I made the mistake of calling the school asking for "the principle," not knowing there was more than one. The lady just transfered me to Shipp's voice mail without asking any other questions (I wonder if she guessed what it was about).

Later, I called the number MakAttak provided for Dr. Burns and a very nice lady answered the phone. I thought it was Dr. Burns secretary as she informed me he was out, and offered to take a message. However, after politely expressing my concern, she said she would forward the message and asked if I would also like to be transfered to Dr. Burns office to let them know myself. So I spoke with another secretary who was also very nice and promised to relay my message.

Dr. Adelphos Burns is the one we need to pester as every such decision gets vetted by the superintendent. It also appears that he was the one to initiate this decision.

At least the staff seems nice. Brevity and politeness are our friends.
 
Dr. Adelphos Burns is the one we need to pester as every such decision gets vetted by the superintendent. It also appears that he was the one to initiate this decision.

Apparently, the superintendent who directly vetted the decision was Danny Barnes - he's the "area superintendent" mentioned in the article.

At least the staff seems nice. Brevity and politeness are our friends.

I think that's true. My guess is that your comments will be ranked as follows:

  1. Wake County resident with kids in East Wake who votes is School Board elections.
  2. Wake County resident with no kids at East Wake who votes in School Board elections.
  3. Wake County resident with kids at East Wake who does not vote i n School Board elections.
  4. Wake County resident with no kids at East Wake who does not vote in School Board elections.
  5. Don't care.

It may be hard to get through to the Wake County principals.

Why?

Fairly recently, we had a "I'm a born again Christian, so I can do whatever I want in my classroom" type teacher bring a born again Christian speaker into a high school class to teach the kids that Islam was a religion created by the Devil. Oddly enough, the Moslem students in the class didn't appreciate being called the spawn of the Devil. Odder yet, their parents didn't appreciate it either. (Some actually thought there was a constitutional amendment that was supposed to prohibit state employees from promulgating any religious viewpoint with taxpayer money!)

People from all over the world called Wake County educators to yell at them for allowing preaching against Islam in the classroom or to tell at them for disciplining the teacher for allowing preaching against Islam in the classroom.

I suspect that they are all a little phone shy about out of state calls at this point.

Mike
 
UPDATE:


Wake Schools To Reconsider Gun Policy

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 - 03:46 PM Updated: 06:56 PM

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By Liza Weidle
Education Reporter
NBC17.com
E-mail | Biography




RALEIGH, N.C. – The Wake school policy committee wants to take another look at a gun policy that kept a student from participating in a statewide shooting tournament.

Discuss This Story

Robert Lumley, East Wake high student, is a member of a marksmanship and orienteering team. This team is one of the clubs at the school.

Committee members said that the policy was put into place without knowledge of the marksmanship classes. The current policy bans weapons on campuses and another policy prohibits students from carrying them on school trips.

Read Current Policy

Read Policy Banning Guns on School Trips

In Lumley’s case, he had a weapon in his possession that he would be taking on a school trip -- the shooting tournament.

The National Rifle Association called the barring of Lumley from the event, “outrageous.”

According to the NRA Web site, “we have a time-honored, decades-old tournament that is sponsored by a state agency and supervised by adults certified in firearms safety.”

Board members say there could be more sign-offs from parents and details on procedures including type of weapons. Insurance needs also need to be addressed.

The committee is moving forward to have the policy revisited and should discuss at the next policy committee meeting on May 13.

At the very least, our emails and calls did not go unnoticed.

I must say I am pleasantly surprised that the school has decided to rethink its policy.
 
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