School me on lead bullets?

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Axis II

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Yes another question I know. LOL.

So I have been loading 240gr JHP for 44mag and man I like shooting that little rifle and a buddy said I should look into say berry's cast 240gr SWC to make it a little cheaper to shoot. upon reading up on these it shows they are pre lubed and I should not have problems with leading? I own a hornady and Lyman book and Lyman might be the best for this. Is there anything else I need to know or so for shooting lead bullets like berry's cast in a 44mag single shot rifle. can I push these as fast as a JHP? I think with imr 4227 im at like 1800fps if I remember right per the book.
 
1800 with lead is not impossible, but you are likely going to end up with not so great accuracy and some leading unless they are really hard. For just a couple bucks more get plated bullets. Xtreme and others state 1500 fps on their websites but I have heard plenty of guys running them close to 2000 without issues. I shoot them all day long with a full dose of h110 from my revolver at around 1400 with very good results.
 
Hi. Problems with leading are caused by trying to drive a cast bullet too fast. Not the bullets themselves.
Hence, "push these as fast as a JHP?", absolutely not.
There's rifle 240 grain cast data on Hodgdon's site, but not with IMR4227 for a rifle. Any of that data will do nicely and will not cause leading. Hodgdon's MBA's would have a kitten if it did.
Absolutely no cast data gets anywhere near 1800 FPS. Max loads of H110 get there with a jacketed 240. Jacketed data is not suitable for any cast bullet.
 
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One aspect not mentioned yet, you need to check the groove diameter of YOUR gun. Whatever 9000 other examples of your gun had for groove diameter does not automatically mean yours is that size, meaning, nobody can say positively what the groove diameter of YOUR example of that model is unless they've slugged it. Full stop. One may luck out by buying some particular diameter bullets and have them work out great in their gun, great, full steam ahead. Its not a guarantee though. Whatever worked that was jacketed wont necessarily be the correct size for cast. Cast is usually desired to be about .001" over groove diameter. Jacke3ted can be several thousandths undersize and still shoot well.

None of that should discourage you from lead bullets, slugging a bore is pretty simple. If you want to wing it, buy a small amount (100) of a type of bullet and try it. If they work, youre good. Just don't assume its always works that easily. Lead bullets can get a bad rap because of the things mentioned, and folks didn't know or pay attention to the small details. You may be able to find Speer lead round balls locally if they sell muzzle loader supplies. If the .433" diameter are available, you can easily slug the bore on your gun, and they make great short range plinker bullets that can be loaded to about 22 noise levels.

If you get bullets that your gun likes, lead can be great shooters, and more economical. They are also great for reduced loads, which I find more fun to shoot in general.
 
MBC has a nice explanation of bullet hardness and how to think about it when developing a load. I shoot old cowboy guns {1860 and 1873s}. These want a much softer bullets to work right. The idea is the same for any round using a lead or lead alloy bullet. Too hard they do not work right, too soft they do not work right. But, you are asking about velocity with lead bullets. At 1800 fps you would need a fairly hard bullet. Yet the faster you run them the finer that line between too soft and too hard gets. Look at their website under "Technical" and you will see what they say about bullet hardness and velocity. I ran magnum alloy in .45ACP and .45 COLTs and got leading. Went back to a softer lead and NO leading. No matter what you will get something in your barrel. Lead, copper, or bullet coatings. So far I cannot see any .44/240 lead rounds running as fast as you wish to.
Unless you have a particular need for 1800 fps the cast swc in 240 would still work nice. I shoot .45 Colt in the handguns and a lever {92} It is amazing what some have done with the .45 Colts in the 1892 rifles. You won't find any loads like that in any reloading book. Yet their testing shows they work and are safe in safe guns. I for one do not dare go that far as I like my shoulder too much. It is out there but be wise and be careful.
 
Sunray said:
Hi. Problems with leading are caused by trying to drive a cast bullet too fast. Not the bullets themselves.
Hence, "push these as fast as a JHP?", absolutely not.
There's rifle 240 grain cast data on Hodgdon's site, but not with IMR4227 for a rifle. Any of that data will do nicely and will not cause leading. Hodgdon's MBA's would have a kitten if it did.
Absolutely no cast data gets anywhere near 1800 FPS. Max loads of H110 get there with a jacketed 240. Jacketed data is not suitable for any cast bullet.
Click to expand...

"Jacketed data is not suitable for any cast bullet."
^^^True in MOST cases. I shoot my Powder Coated Painted , cast lead projectiles at jacketed data speeds...Bill.:):)
 
billybob44 said:
"Jacketed data is not suitable for any cast bullet."
^^^True in MOST cases. I shoot my Powder Coated Painted , cast lead projectiles at jacketed data speeds...Bill.:):)
Click to expand...
I agree! I load my powder coated bullets with jacketed data. The slick bullets get 5-7% higher velocity than a jacketed bullet with the same load.
 
Reefinmike said:
I agree! I load my powder coated bullets with jacketed data. The slick bullets get 5-7% higher velocity than a jacketed bullet with the same load.
Click to expand...

:DYep, good stuff..
:what:Heck, I have been "Melting" the wax off of my cast bullets that I have already lubed..HA HA..:)
 
The single most important factor for shooting lead bullets is bullet to barrel fit. Any BHN bullet will give bad accuracy and lead the barrel if it's too small. But a good bullet to barrel fit a "soft" bullet (BHN10 or so) can be driven to 1,200-1,400 fps easily, BTDT!
 
Sunray said:
Hi. Problems with leading are caused by trying to drive a cast bullet too fast. Not the bullets themselves.
Hence, "push these as fast as a JHP?", absolutely not.
There's rifle 240 grain cast data on Hodgdon's site, but not with IMR4227 for a rifle. Any of that data will do nicely and will not cause leading. Hodgdon's MBA's would have a kitten if it did.
Absolutely no cast data gets anywhere near 1800 FPS. Max loads of H110 get there with a jacketed 240. Jacketed data is not suitable for any cast bullet.
Click to expand...

Is the data on Hornadys site for Hornady soft swaged lead bullets? If so that's one reason they wont show data in that velocity range. If so, that's also an example of the bullet being the issue, not the velocity in and of itself. The right bullet, alloy, gas checked, right lube, correct diameter for barrel, may go that fast or faster in some applications, though I haven't looked at 44 mag rifle data specifically in that regard. Am sure the Lyman manual has some fairly fast loads with cast. I recall they ran the 200-215 gr 44-40 cast loads around 2000 fps in the old manuals.

Most of the data Ive looked and used, cast will have higher velocity and lower pressure for a similar jacketed bullet in pistol use.
 
Malamute said:
Is the data on Hornadys site for Hornady soft swaged lead bullets? If so that's one reason they wont show data in that velocity range. If so, that's also an example of the bullet being the issue, not the velocity in and of itself. The right bullet, alloy, gas checked, right lube, correct diameter for barrel, may go that fast or faster in some applications, though I haven't looked at 44 mag rifle data specifically in that regard. Am sure the Lyman manual has some fairly fast loads with cast. I recall they ran the 200-215 gr 44-40 cast loads around 2000 fps in the old manuals.

Most of the data Ive looked and used, cast will have higher velocity and lower pressure for a similar jacketed bullet in pistol use.
Click to expand...

Be sure to note that we are speaking of HODGDON POWDER SITE--Not Hornady's Bullets Site. I do not know if Hornady Bullets even have a Web Site...They LIKE to sell their books!!HA HA..
But, Yes, my Hornady Manuals only list powder data for their Swaged bullets, along with their jacketed..
With my Powder Coated Painted bullets, I CAN use their Jacketed bullet load data without ANY problems...Bill.
 
Measure any bullets you buy. PCed, Hi-Tek, plated, nekkid cast, and yep, even jacketed bullets. PCed and plated seem to vary by manufacturer, in my experience, but all the Hi-Tek I've purchases were +/- .0005" and true to cast lead diameters. I haven't purchased any cast bullets in prolly 10 years and all the jacketed bullets I bought also keep the +/- .0005" diameter...
 
I assume MO means Moly. Leave it there. It does not build to any degree. It does make metal slippery. Brush and swab and do not worry about removing what you tried to put there.I ran a lot of moly coated bullets. My own moly coating. Factory moly has a wax with it and could build up some. But normal cleaning would remove that wax. The moly coated bullets that I made gave me better accuracy and a lot more shots between cleaning when shooting P-dogs. I would get say 100 rounds down the tube before having any accuracy issues. Before the moly I got maybe 50 rounds and had to clean that barrel. A wet patch would come out black but that told me the moly was now on my barrel.
 
RealGun said:
With MO coated, I see during cleaning what I am guessing is coating transferred to the bore. Still looking for how to dissolve this without the hazards and volatility of lacquer thinner. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
I haven't seen any buildup in the bore so far. Maybe I haven't shot enough.
 
Malamute said:
One aspect not mentioned yet, you need to check the groove diameter of YOUR gun. Whatever 9000 other examples of your gun had for groove diameter does not automatically mean yours is that size, meaning, nobody can say positively what the groove diameter of YOUR example of that model is unless they've slugged it. Full stop. One may luck out by buying some particular diameter bullets and have them work out great in their gun, great, full steam ahead. Its not a guarantee though. Whatever worked that was jacketed wont necessarily be the correct size for cast. Cast is usually desired to be about .001" over groove diameter. Jacke3ted can be several thousandths undersize and still shoot well.

None of that should discourage you from lead bullets, slugging a bore is pretty simple. If you want to wing it, buy a small amount (100) of a type of bullet and try it. If they work, youre good. Just don't assume its always works that easily. Lead bullets can get a bad rap because of the things mentioned, and folks didn't know or pay attention to the small details. You may be able to find Speer lead round balls locally if they sell muzzle loader supplies. If the .433" diameter are available, you can easily slug the bore on your gun, and they make great short range plinker bullets that can be loaded to about 22 noise levels.

If you get bullets that your gun likes, lead can be great shooters, and more economical. They are also great for reduced loads, which I find more fun to shoot in general.
Click to expand...

+1 to this. Great information.
 
What's the rifle? If it's a marlin with a micro groove barrel I wouldn't bother with feeding it lead. Some guys do, but for success they have to go with really hard lead and mess with different sizing for the bullets. Another thing I'd recommend is that you go with a RNFP bullet to avoid potential feeding issues. The rifle might feed SWC's just fine or it might not, a RNFP design would be the safer way to go if your buying a few hundred bullets.
 
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