I was looking around at .430 bullet for my muzzleloader and seen the 265gr Hornady interlock and the 265gr ftx for 444 marlin and seen posts saying they used them in 44mag carbines. Now i have had to pull 240gr xtp from cases with imr 4227 and have to bang the case because its starting to compress the charge so with these bullets appearing to be longer wouldn't that create dangerous pressure? Im trying to find a decent 44mag handi rifle bullet other than the 240gr xtp. I figured if i shot the 265-300 out of my muzzleloader i could swap with the handi rifle.
will any .430 bullet work for 44mag?
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Toprudder
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Depends.
The profile could be too long to allow it to fit in a revolver cylinder, or to feed in a lever action.
You don't want to use pointed bullets in a tubular magazine.
If there is no cannelure or crimp groove, that could be a problem with heavy loads, particularly with plated or coated bullets where a roll crimp may damage the plating or coating.
The profile could be too long to allow it to fit in a revolver cylinder, or to feed in a lever action.
You don't want to use pointed bullets in a tubular magazine.
If there is no cannelure or crimp groove, that could be a problem with heavy loads, particularly with plated or coated bullets where a roll crimp may damage the plating or coating.
someguy2800
Member
Since you are loading in a handy rifle you don't need to crimp them or pay any attention to where the cannelure is. Depending on how long the throat is cut you could seat the bullets out a bit to gain some powder room. 4227 is a good powder but it is pretty bulky and slow for a 44 magnum. If your not happy with the performance you get with a compressed load of it try H110. Its a bit less bulky and will give better velocity at the cost of being more temp sensitive. As for using those two bullet in a 44 mag single shot they will both work just fine.
you think its worth trying h110 over the IMR? I have only used IMR cause I heard its more accurate and easier to load. I haven't shot a deer with a 44mag but my thinking is we have some large 200lbs field dressed deer around here so hitting them with a heavier bullet might be the best thing instead of a 240gr HP. I'm thinking a 300gr xtp might be a little too heavy for the handi so I figured the 265 might be the ticket.
Marlin told me the SAAMI standard for 44 Magnum barrels was 0.431". They said it was SAAMI spec. You would have to call the manufacturer of the Handy rifle for their groove and land dimensions, but I will bet it is the same. Therefore a 0.430" should be no problem.
buck460XVR
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Why do you have to pull those bullets because of a compressed charge? IMR4227 shoots very well when compressed. I doubt very much of you need a bullet heavier than 240 gr in .44 mag for any 200# deer.
Didn't pull because of compression pulled for other reasons and charge was stuck in case.
someguy2800
Member
It really depends what velocity your going for. If your okay with the accuracy and speed your getting with 4227 then no reason to change. I took your post as meaning that you could not run it up as fast as you wanted due to not being able to fit enough powder in the case. I guarantee h110 will be a good bit faster than 4227. I load H110 in 4 different cartridges and it's been the most accurate tested in all of them.
Most of the 44 mag handi rifles are a 1:38" twist rate, but some later ones are 1:20". If yours is a 1:38 it might not shoot a 300 well. It's not going to phase the handi rifle frame in the slightest if you want to try it. If it can handle 308 pressures and 444 energy it's not even going to blink at a 44 magnum.
The 44 and 357 magnums loose a lot of powder capacity with heavy bullets so I think I would stick with the 240 xtp or for better penetration a 240 Speer gold dot soft point or remington 240 soft point. Will be a lot flatter shooting.
you were correct. I was concerned with the bigger bullet being longer and compressing the charge more. Its already compressed enough with the 240gr that i have to bang the cases to get it to dump out when the bullet is seated and pulled. I may pickup a pound of h110 before gun season hits the 27th and see what it will do.
Now forgive my ignorance but does the speer/Remington soft points mushroom for internal damage?
someguy2800
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A heavier bullet uses a smaller powder charge so it would end up about the same. Yes they will both mushroom but will expand a little more slowly than an xtp for deeper penetration. That's not likely to be a problem anyway with a 44 mag
Blue68f100
Member
Just a reminder that the H110/W296 requires a Magnum Primer. And you do not drop back 10% from max like most powders, 3% is what is recommended.
thanks, I use a mag primer anyways cause i figured once i got more experience with that caliber i would switch over and didn't want to buy 1k normal primers and then 1k mag.
I decided to go 4227 just because of how touchy h110 is. I figured being somewhat new to reloading at the time i would use something a little "safer"
someguy2800
Member
I've really not found H110 to be touchy. I've loaded it up and down all over within published load ranges with no strange effects. Velocity changes a little bit with temperature and it really likes magnum primers. The nice thing about 4227 is it would be virtually impossible to overdo the charge in a 357 or 44 mag.
Sunray
Member
.430" bullets will be cast only.
No 240 grain .44 Mag load of IMR4227 is compressed. Neither is a 270 grain(no 265's on Hodgdon's site, but a 270 will just be a tick longer.) load. So something is terribly wrong.
How are you charging the cases? And with how much powder?
"...bulky and slow for a 44 magnum..." IMR4227 is one of the 'go to' .44 Mag powders. Has been for eons. Works really well in .30 Carbine.
"...H110/W296 requires a Magnum Primer..." No, it doesn't. None of Hodgdon's .44 Mag loads use a magnum primer. Magnum primers have nothing to do with the cartridge name.
No 240 grain .44 Mag load of IMR4227 is compressed. Neither is a 270 grain(no 265's on Hodgdon's site, but a 270 will just be a tick longer.) load. So something is terribly wrong.
How are you charging the cases? And with how much powder?
"...bulky and slow for a 44 magnum..." IMR4227 is one of the 'go to' .44 Mag powders. Has been for eons. Works really well in .30 Carbine.
"...H110/W296 requires a Magnum Primer..." No, it doesn't. None of Hodgdon's .44 Mag loads use a magnum primer. Magnum primers have nothing to do with the cartridge name.
You might want to measure your COAL in your handy and compare it to whats listed in manuals. SOMETIMES they will have a long throat, and youll be able to seat the heavier longer bullets out more giving you back some powder space they would otherwise occupy if loaded to spec.
I use a lot of w296/H110 in everything from .357s and .44, to my 300aac and .458Socom, and have found it to be very well behaved, at least in the heavier loadings.
I think some folks run into problems trying to download it to much and get inconsistency there, if you want a reduced recoil load go to a different/faster powder.
Ive used both Mag primers and standards, but mostly mags.
Ive also used 4227, but not for the .44, tho i should try it i guess since ive got a pound sitting here.
I know ive seen loads for the .444 bullets in standard .44 mag cases, especially for the handys and other single shots. You may want to look around some more, and learn what the pressure signs for your particular action type, and model even, look like.
As you may end up having to work up your own data carefully, because when you start subbing in components like that your basically creating a wild cat cartridge/loading, not just a deviation of standard data.....tho now that ive thought about it ive seen data for bullets as heavy as 300grns in the .44s, never loaded any tho.
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Id have to say it depends. While it may not be necessary for ignition, in cartridges like the .458 socom, and when loading other cartridges beyond standard pressure "spec" i prefer to go with LPMs, just to get the thicker cup.
all the xtp I have seen in 240gr at .430 per hornady's site and my box. its not fully compressed but its getting there where you need to tp cases for it to fall out after pulling a bullet. 23gr of powder thrown into the pan and trickled on an electronic scale that is checked with check weights. always been told with ball powders to use a mag primer and it helped significantly in 223rem with h335 as it shrunk groups.
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/handgun/44-cal-430-240-gr-hp-xtp#!/
someguy2800
Member
All hornady's bullets are .430". I didn't say 4227 doesn't work for 44 mag, I said its bulky which it is, and it's slow which it is. It's the slowest powder listed in any 44 data I know of. If you say h110 doesn't need a magnum primer you must not have tried it. It's cut the extreme spread in half and gave better velocity in every cartridge I've shot it in. Hodgdon uses remington in there 44 data. Remington does not make a large pistol magnum primer. They are equivalent in power to others magnum primers.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
I don't load .44 mag so I don't know in .44 mag.
Not to stray from The High Road but...
Sunray did you determine this from testing in .44 mag or .357 mag or some other cartridge?
Do you have some chrono numbers with ES and SDs to support this? Maybe some targets?
It H110/W296 seems to be lots happier in .357 with mag primers.
I would say any H110/W296 load is a heavy load and it is ball, so the above is what CCI reccomends. Possible they might know what they are talking about since they make primers.
When I have a chance I will do a test in .357 to see and document the difference I get.
My days here are always fairly warm >55 (Hot in the summer, 80s to 90s lately) in the day time except for a few days in winter, so most likely it won't be cold when I test.
It might make a much larger difference with lower outside temps.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...h110-win-296-thoughts-on-load-density.828075/
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Jacketed come in both .429 and .430 for .44.
Many cast .44 bullets are .431 or .432. My oversized bore Model 94 sure liked them big.
4227 is often around 100% load density in .44 Mag, it's somewhat slow and bulky for the caliber. My 94 loved it.
Correct, mag primers have to do with the powder used, and Winchester has always recommended a mag primer for W-296, which is the same powder as H-110.
Salmoneye
Member
In addition, Sierra's jacketed "44" bullets come in at .4295"...
buck460XVR
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- The 240gr XTP the OP is using is a .430 jacketed bullet.
- Lyman shows a Compressed load with IMR4227 and a 240 gr bullet in their manual. My charges of IMR4227 under the 240s I use, are slightly compressed. Nothing terribly wrong.
- Hodgdon generally uses either a Winchester or Remington Large Pistol Primer, of which they only make one.....good for standard or magnum primer usage.
someguy2800
Member
I was just looking in my Lyman manual and noticed that they list a load for the Hornady 265 gr bullet in the single shot section of there manual. Note the asterisk next to H110 indicates a magnum primer. I included there 240 and 300 data as well since you were interested in 300's.
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