School me on the .45 Long Colt

[MCMXI]

Take a breath. Call it .45 Colt or .45 Long Colt as you please...we all know what you mean.

While I agree with the sentiment, the OP's topic is titled "School me on the .45 Long Colt". Surely we can have an intelligent, rational and calm discussion on how the .45 Colt came to be known by some as the .45 Long Colt without getting all bent out of shape. Personally, I've been calling it .45 Colt ever since I learned that it was created as such back in 1872.

If I look at my .45 Colt firearms, the Redhawk, Super Redhawk, USFA Rodeos (2) and Marlin '94 all have .45 Colt stamped on them somewhere. The only exception are the Bisley Blackhawks which have .45 Caliber stamped on them since they're convertible models that came with .45 ACP/.45 Colt cylinders. The Remington and Hornady cases that I use for reloading have .45 Colt stamped on them. My Redding reloading dies for .45 Colt and .454 Casull also have .45 Colt stamped on them. Basically, I don't have anything with .45LC stamped on it. I don't buy .45 Colt factory ammunition, but a quick look on Midway seems to indicate that all of the modern ammunition simply states .45 Colt.

Everyone is free to refer to the .45 Colt in any way they see fit, but given the explanation of how the .45 Colt became known as the .45 Long Colt and now realizing that the distinction isn't necessary, and given that most firearms, dies, cases, ammunition etc use .45 Colt, I do wonder why anyone, knowing all that, would choose to call it the .45 Long Colt.

I suggest a concerted effort "to School EVERYONE on the .45 Long Colt" by undoing a wrong and giving the venerable cartridge the respect that it rightfully deserves.

.45 Colt!!

 

[MCgunner]

Whatever it's called, and frankly I don't care because I know what you're talking about either way, it's a great caliber and that's why it's still alive and others like .32-20 are relics of history. Sorry if I offended .32-20 lovers. I started to say .44-40, but figured that'd be the death of me.

 

[1911Tuner]

1858, while I agree with the replies based on the request, it was about to degenerate into name calling and other semantics not related to the discussion.

I also agree that ".45 Long Colt" is erroneous, but maintain that whenever somebody uses it...everybody who is familiar with the cartridge knows what is being described...like saying "clip" when referrring to an autopistol's ammunition feeding device. Not really worth going into the red zone over.

But...for the sake of correct terminology...Here's part of an article that may help.

******

>The .45 Colt was a joint development between Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company, of Hartford, Connecticut, and the Union Metallic Cartridge Company of Bridgeport, Conn. Colt began work on the revolver in 1871, and submitted a sample to the U.S. Army in late 1872. The revolver was accepted for purchase in 1873.

The cartridge, itself, was of outside lubricated type, but eliminated the rebated heel type bullet, often attributed to a Russian designer. The .45 Colt replaced the .50 caliber Model 1871 Remington single shot pistol and the various cap-and-ball revolvers converted to take metallic cartridges in use at the time. While the Colt remained popular, the Smith & Wesson M1875 Army Schofield Revolver, was approved as an alternate. The S&W revolver took a shorter cartridge, which would also work in the Colt, so Frankford Arsenal, then almost exclusive supplier of small arms ammunition to the U.S. Army, dropped production of the Colt round. The M1875 round was replaced by the .38 Long Colt in 1892. In 1909, the .45 M1909 round was issued along with the Colt New Service revolver. This round was never loaded commercially, and is almost identical to the original Colt round, except having a larger diameter rim. The rim is large enough that it cannot be loaded in adjacent chambers in the rod-ejector Colt model.<<
************

Thus...because it was the only .45 Caliber cartridge at the time of its introduction, and because there was no shorter, similar cartridge to differentiate it from until the .45 Schofield came along...and because both were in service at the same time...the shorter Smith & Wesson round was probably the reason that it came to be called ".45 Long Colt" by shooters, the army...and even the ammunition manufacturers...in order to avoid confusion with the Schofield and possibly also the .45 M1909 cartridge.

 

[CraigC]

Its a good thing colt caters to the ignorant. Such ignorant folks like Skeeter Skelton, Elmer Kieth, and the like are all included in your post right?

Folks seem to have a hard time with the word "ignorant", as if it were the same as "stupid". In this politically correct climate, it is all but impossible to suggest that somebody lacks in knowledge without hurting feelings. By ignorant (lack of knowledge), I refer to the gunstore counter monkey who needs the "Long" to know that you're not referring to the .45ACP when you ask for .45Colt's. A common reason for many to continue using the "Long" moniker.

Thumbing through my copies of Sixguns (1961) and Sixgun Cartridges and Loads (1936), all I see are references to the ".45Colt". In one paragraph, where he gives load data with 2400 and the long defunct Dupont #80 powder, he begins with ".45Colt, long case...". This was written in 1936 when the shorter .45Gov't was still somewhat available.

 

[1911Tuner]

Its a good thing colt caters to the ignorant. Such ignorant folks like Skeeter Skelton, Elmer Keith, and the like are all included in your post right?

It should be noted that these men were active in their youth during the time that even some of the ammo makers used "Long Colt" on their boxes in order to differentiate between the various .45 rounds that were still being used fairly commonly...so it would stand to reason that they'd likely use it, too.

Now...Can we get back to the meat of the matter?

 

[Walkalong]

Sorry if I offended .32-20 lovers.

...sniff, sniff..........Love my .32-20.



Now, the meat of the matter,

.45 Colt rocks, no matter what ya'll want to call it.

Should I go for a nice range gun or do you folks CCW with them?
Let me know what are your favorites in this caliber large or small[ish].

It can be loaded from very light, to quite heavy (in the right gun). It shoots a .45 caliber pill. (That's a good thing) It goes "boom" instead of "crack". It's accurate, and it's fun to lob those heavy bullets long range.

I would pick .44 Spl for a big bore snub/CCW over the .45 Colt. More options at the ammo counter. I would recommend picking up a nice used S&W Model 25 for range work.

 

[Walkalong]

Pick one.....and go for it.

 

[DFW1911]

Here's one of mine: it's my "desk gun."

This one is quite rare in that it will shoot both .45 Colt and .45 Long Colt.

Couldn't resist

 

[Stainz]

If you stay within the accepted spec's for the .45 Colt, ie, 14 kpsi, it is still fun - and quite capable. Hotrodding it isn't necessary these days, as there are more potent .45 caliber rounds, like the .454 Casull and .460 Magnum, to fulfill the perceptual need for more energy. The real upside of staying within .45 Colt SAAMI specs is that anything that bears the .45 Colt caliber mark can take such a round. Keeping Ruger/TC-only loads - or the slightly hotter S&W 25/625 loads - separate from standard .45 Colt is a recipe for disaster, because of a mix of revolvers. Heck, even the Ruger .45 Colts aren't all the same!

Seriously, it is a fun cartridge - as it is. Sure, it's a blast to let fly with a 2,100+ ft-lb .454 Casull load, in the proper revolver, but this thread is about... .45 Colt!

Stainz

 

[MCMXI]

The real upside of staying within .45 Colt SAAMI specs is that anything that bears the .45 Colt caliber mark can take such a round. Keeping Ruger/TC-only loads - or the slightly hotter S&W 25/625 loads - separate from standard .45 Colt is a recipe for disaster, because of a mix of revolvers. Heck, even the Ruger .45 Colts aren't all the same!

This is a VERY important point. I bought 500 Hornady .45 Colt cases last year for this very reason. I figured Hornady = HOT. I use Remington R.P cases for any loads that are safe in ALL of my .45 Colt firearms. I think of it as R.P for Regular. I only use the Hornady cases for hot loads that are only safe in the Rugers and Marlin. If I buy the S&W Mountain Gun that I'm considering, I'll have to buy some Starline cases .... for Smith & Wesson ... .

 

[wrs840]

I've gotta ask, (but hoping to not rekindle controversy)... about when would that box of cartridges "from the heyday of fastdraw competitions" (in Doogle's post #33) have been manufactured?

Thanks,
Les

 

[ljnowell]

Folks seem to have a hard time with the word "ignorant", as if it were the same as "stupid". In this politically correct climate, it is all but impossible to suggest that somebody lacks in knowledge without hurting feelings. By ignorant (lack of knowledge), I refer to the gunstore counter monkey who needs the "Long" to know that you're not referring to the .45ACP when you ask for .45Colt's. A common reason for many to continue using the "Long" moniker.

Thumbing through my copies of Sixguns (1961) and Sixgun Cartridges and Loads (1936), all I see are references to the ".45Colt". In one paragraph, where he gives load data with 2400 and the long defunct Dupont #80 powder, he begins with ".45Colt, long case...". This was written in 1936 when the shorter .45Gov't was still somewhat available.

I know the use of the word, that was my point. Guys who were very learned in handguns used the phrase as did ammo companies, etc. Why do we need to argue about it?

 

[MachIVshooter]

Keeping Ruger/TC-only loads - or the slightly hotter S&W 25/625 loads - separate from standard .45 Colt is a recipe for disaster, because of a mix of revolvers. Heck, even the Ruger .45 Colts aren't all the same

That's really just a matter of organizational skills. I have heavy loaded ammunition in many calibers that is not suitable for some guns I own that would chamber it. That includes .45 Colt loads that are mid-level stuff for use in my SRH, not to be put in the Beretta Stampede. But my loads are clearly marked on the boxes, and if there's any doubt about a loose round, it gets thrown in the mix bag, which only get used in the stronger guns.

Seriously, it is a fun cartridge - as it is. Sure, it's a blast to let fly with a 2,100+ ft-lb .454 Casull load, in the proper revolver,

Unless you've got a secret recipe, those over 2k ft/lb Casull numbers are spat out of longer barreled Contenders. The most I could muster in my 7.5" SRH was a shade over 1,600 FPS with 300 grainers, and those loads were jumping crimp with cannelured bullets. I had to run them all back through the die and force the case mouth past the crimping point to keep them seated under firing (Starline nickel brass). They also kick like the dickens with those stock Ruger grips. .44 mag level Colt loads in that gun, OTOH, are more than manageable.

 

[TooTaxed]

My young grandson may have hit upon the crux of the matter. We were at the range shooting both my .45 Ruger and my 1911. Another kid asked him what that BIG cartridge was. He stood on their bases a .45 ACP round and a .45 Colt round, and explained proudly, "This is a .45 Long Colt and this is a .45 Short Colt!

I saw no reason to disagree with him.

Frankly, fellows, I find the vehement arguments about the .45 Colt v .45 Long Colt designations to be rather senseless...it makes no difference at all. Everyone knows they refer to the same cartridge. Why sweat the small stuff?

 

[Leaky Waders]

I like the 45 Long Colt - respectable rounds are easy and fun to shoot and you're like automatically in a fraternity when you own one.

I prefer the name Long Colt - because there is no doubt what you're talking about vs a 45 acp, and searching for 45 Colt often yields acp information while the Long Colt nomenclature simplifies searches.

Here's what I have thus far in in 45 long Colt - beretta (uberti) 1873, ruger old style vaquero with power custom parts, Colt SAA with nutmeg engraving and ivory grips, and S&W model 25. I'll eventually get a mountain gun too - to quote Darth Vader 'it is [my] destiny.'

 

[CraigC]

BTW, who said the .32-20 was a "relic"??? The WCF's are enjoying much popularity these days and new guns chambering them are not hard to find. Hell, I bought a new .32-20 Uberti SAA just a few years ago and a .38-40 last summer.

 

[Stainz]

MachIVShooter,

Let me know how your 'organizational skills' work out for you when you put a .45 Colt round, loaded for an old Ruger BH/RH, in a new Vaquero. Seriously, to me, it was a recipe for disaster - and now I have 'just' .45 Colts - from 200 ft-lb to ~450 ft-lb. Good luck with your 'labels'.

As far as KE & the 7.5" .454 Casull SRH, consider my favorite round - the Hornady 240gr XTP. It was originally rated at 2,000 fps (Lots 99 & 00) - later detuned to 1,900 - then back to 2,000 - and today, on their ballistics chart, back to 1,900. Initially, they had extraction issues in the SRH - they had employed softer brass to make them more reloadable! Hornady is a great company - a call got several free boxes to replace the soft-brass ammo - which I was also told to keep - nice folks. The only such ammo I wasted over a chrono at the range yielded 1,995 +/- 12 fps. That's 2,130 fps - which I remember as a healthy push. I traded the SRH (... for a #1H in .458 Lott!) 12/04.

I reloaded .454 cases with 255gr LSWC, aka .45 Colt, at 960 fps - using SP primers instead of SR primers - not recommended, but my choice for essentially warmer .45 Colts. I had to use them in the SRH, of course. When it left, so did my 'hot' .45 Colts - also gone were the RH-only loads, as the .45 RH was destined to go, to. I found a left-over box of RH-only loads last summer, as I went through my stash. I may shoot it in my Puma 24" SS octagon barrel M1892. No, I'll dissect it and reload it. These days, I just have 'fun' launching sub 200 ft-lb loads in .45 Colt & Schoffield cases to near 450 ft-lb max in .45 Colt Starline cases. My CTS-riddled wrists appreciate the 'mild' recoil... and my feeble mind and poor organizational skills appreciates the shoot anything I have in .45 Colt in any firearm so rated. It's still a lot of fun! YMMV.

Stainz

 

[MCgunner]

This is a VERY important point. I bought 500 Hornady .45 Colt cases last year for this very reason. I figured Hornady = HOT. I use Remington R.P cases for any loads that are safe in ALL of my .45 Colt firearms. I think of it as R.P for Regular. I only use the Hornady cases for hot loads that are only safe in the Rugers and Marlin. If I buy the S&W Mountain Gun that I'm considering, I'll have to buy some Starline cases .... for Smith & Wesson ...

I only own a Thompson Center (rarely shoot colt in it, it also fires .410 and is fun) and a Ruger Blackhawk, so I don't have the problem of mixing loads. But, I couldn't screw up anyway unless I suddenly went blind and then I couldn't shoot so why would it matter?

My method is bullets. My hot load shoots a JHP 300 grain XTP. My utility load, light, 8.3 grains Unique, 255 cast bullet from a Lee mold, is a cast bullet. Pick up a box of cast bullets, no problem, good in any gun.

I like the jacketed bullets at high velocity. If I shoot 'em in the TC, and I usually carry a few when I'm wandering my place this time of year looking for rattlers to fry for dinner. The choke comes off the gun pretty quick and you never know when you'll run across some noisy hogs that give you time to pull the choke and switch ammo. It's happened before, though they never came out of the brush for a shot.

Anyway, that TC, with its long free bore due to the 3" .410 chamber, is not good with lead bullets, too much blow by, causes leading. So, in that gun, I stick with the jackets and, heck, they shoot great in my Ruger, too. But, this does preclude mixing power levels of ammo. If I get a weaker gun in the future, a P model colt replica or something or more likely a Remington 58 with a conversion cylinder, I will have to be REALLY brain farting to screw up. I don't think that's going to happen, even as I go senile.

Yeah, I could get a casull and may some day, may. I love the Freedom Arms revolvers, but they're a might expensive and I'm poor and retired. May never happen. Anyway, the Ruger is a lighter, easier to carry gun, and with the hot loads is enough gun for anything in Texas/New Mexico. It's only about 40 ounces on the belt for that much power, as light as a mountain gun and a damned sight stronger. I much prefer single action guns for field use for their strength and I just love SA guns, grew up on 'em. I don't need no stinkin' DA for .45 Colt. And, I don't need no heavy .454. If I'm going to carry a gun that heavy, I'll carry a carbine.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Let me know how your 'organizational skills' work out for you when you put a .45 Colt round, loaded for an old Ruger BH/RH, in a new Vaquero.

Aside from not owning either of those models, it'll never happen. ALL my handloads are carefully organized and labeled. And as I said, if there's any doubt about a loose round or rounds, they get used only in the stronger guns.

My ammunition is not haphazardly thrown into old boxes and coffee cans and piled into the corner of a closet. I used to keep an EXACT tabulation of every single round using excel, but that became a logistical nightmare with rimfire stuff and partially loaded magazines. I just don't have the hours to spare to inventory that carefully these days. Besides, it just doesn't really matter.

Every load is also cataloged in a 3-ring binder with bullet, case, charge, primer, cost per round, lot numbers, and so on. Ballistics, accuracy, and any other notes are recorded after a day at the range with a chronograph, including date tested, ambient temperature, B.P., wind, etc.





I have 9x19m loads for my 5906 and Baby Eagle that are absolute no-no's for the Beretta 92, PF-9, Pre-B 75, etc. .357 loads for my L-frames that are too much for the K-frame and Security-Six. .30-06 loads for Remington M-700 that are not to be used in the Garand. The list goes on.

I just don't see what's so difficult about this. It's no more complicated a concept than labeling bottles with different chemicals. I suppose it would pose a problem for someone who is blind or illiterate, but I'm neither.

If you find it to be too much hassle, then your approach of only keeping ammo on hand that can be used in all guns so chambered is what works for you. But just because you feel that you can't manage to keep various loads separate doesn't give you the right to chastise me and imply that I will make an egregious error that could cost life and limb.

 

[CraigC]

ALL my handloads are carefully organized and labeled.

Personally, I think the fear of mixing up loads and dropping five rounds of nuclear .45Colt into your Colt SAA is way overexaggerated.

 

[riddleofsteel]

So far all of my .45 Colt guns are the Blackhawk variety. I had a .45 Colt S&W Mountain gun but I eventually sold it because no matter when I was packing it I was thinking I might as well been packing my Ruger. If I get a lighter small frame gun it will be in .44 Special. Problem solved.

 

[Leaky Waders]

Nice setup Mach IV - do you keep the rounds in the garage? I'm stil trying to figure out where to store my loaded ammo.

Also it's funny but the case that your .45 reloads are in is labelled .45 L Colt by the manufacturer

 

[StrawHat]

Organization is great and I hope your method is foolproof. I had a similar system, and one day watched as my buddy loaded a 45-70 cartridge intended for the Siamese Mauser into my 1873 Trapdoor. I got to him before the bang but it made a believer out of me.

As for what the OP asked, I like the 45 Long Colt and have had about half a dozen revolvers so chambered. My favorites were a 5 1/2 Model P clone and the S&W m25-5 with the 6" barrel. I could carry the clone as a CCW but the 6" S&W was a bit much for a belt gun. I still use my 4" N frame 45 ACP as my daily carry piece so the frame was not the issue. The extra 2" of barrel were a problem for me. I was able to carry the clone because the holster I had rode higher on my belt but only concealed it on a handful of occasions.

 

[MachIVshooter]

do you keep the rounds in the garage?

In the basement. CO is a nice, dry state, so guns and ammo are safe there.
And that's certainly not all of it Can't see the bottom shelf, and large quantities are kept in rubber maid tubs (same labeling system).

Also it's funny but the case that your .45 reloads are in is labelled .45 L Colt by the manufacturer

The irony does not escape me. The barrel on my Stampede is stamped clear as day ".45 LC". Silly Italians.

(I just happen to be a WOP)

 

[Walkalong]

I color the primers on Ruger Only .45 Colt loads with red magic marker. That way even if they get spilled from their marked box and get mixed up with other .45 Colt loads, I can identify them.

I am the only one here who has ever spilled a box of ammo? Betcha I'm not.