School's recommended response to shooter...

[Erebus]

If you are caught in an open area in the residence hall, you may choose to fight back. This is dangerous, but depending on your situation, this will likely be your last act either way due to our mandatory disarmament policy.

There fixed it for them.

I would rather be shot in the face while charging my assailant than be shot in the back while cowering in a corner.

I would rather just return fire, if he out shoots me that's my fault for not having acquired the training and honed the skills needed to defeat him. But being helpless other than to charge a guy shooting at me due to a policy is intolerable.

 

[Deanimator]

"I would rather be shot in the face while charging my assailant than be shot in the back while cowering in a corner."

yeah, but should the school actually advocate doing that as an option?

What's the downside to fighting back against an implacable homicidal maniac?

That you'll "escalate the violence"?

That's you'll "lower yourself to the mass murderer's level"?

How is being passively slaughtered like a sheep BETTER than RISKING death to defend oneself?

Again, I have to go back to the Holocaust analogy. I've actually had idiots tell me that it would have been WORSE for victims of the Holocaust to fight back on a larger scale because it would have made the Nazis more "angry". How can anybody get "angrier" than the desire for total extermination? Likewise, if somebody's kneeling everyone down and shooting them in the back of the head, isn't that pretty much as "angry" as he can get?

Of course I once had an Englishman respond in shock and outrage that I would portray being a coward as a NEGATIVE thing...

 

[Cosmoline]

Possibly, but a number of factors come into consideration such as distance and who moves first.

Be very careful to distinguish between the danger to the shooter and the danger to the knifer. The shooter needs to take knives seriously in a self defense situation because any stab wound can eventually lead to death. So if you attack someone shooting up a school and you only have a knife, you may well get in a strike. But then you'll be dead and by the time he bleeds out and long before infection sets in he'll be dead anyway probably by his own hand.

 

[bluestarlizzard]

"What's the downside to fighting back against an implacable homicidal maniac?"

did you read the rest of that post. the same school that won't let you be armed is telling students that they should fight back with their bare hands. now, for me or you thats not even an option, we're gonna fight till we drop. but the average college student is not you or me. the school should not be handing out some namby pamby "well you can fight back" without backing up that statement. so the freshmen 90 pound 18 year old girl thats never even had a bad word thrown in her face is to fight back?
once again it is the right direction, but so far from whats needed that its just downright insulting.

 

[redneckdan]

During my time @ Tech I had half a dozen firearms in the Armory in Wads. Might not have been the smartest (nor legal) thing to do but after the 3rd time of the RA not getting his happy hung-over butt out of bed at 4 am so that I could "check out" my rifle during firearm deer season, it somehow ended up beneath my couch in my room

its even worse now. all weapons must be locked up at public safety. only assecible during 'normal buisness hours' but you can drop them off back in storage at any time. I'm glad I moved off campus.



I gotta kick out of that emergency managment plan thingy. like the other dude said; fight back...with what?

 

[fspitzdorf]

MTU really is unlike most other universities in the US of A. It's located in a very isolated very outdoors oriented area. Just about as far North and West as you can go in the State of Michigan. It is an Engineering school more or less. About 6600 students so relatively small (Houghton & Hancock together are about 12K people). Outside of Houghton / Hancock the nearest "major" city would be Marquette, 100 miles to the East.

The local population more than likely has a staggering percentage of firearms ownership when compared to the rest of the US. Most are hunters at the very least and in general people are very independent. I see some of this in the wording of the policies we are speaking of. At least the "don't sit around and die" wording. Still doesn't make anyone feel very peachy that has unclouded vision... Same ole same ole...

Unfortunately Michigan State law prohibits CCW on campus. So essentially the University's hands are tied and cannot recommend that as a course of action. To change this policy, we need to take it up with the State Legislature... There is currently a bill in committee to eliminate "gun free zones" for all CCW holders.

In reality, during my tenure as a student at Tech, most of my friends kept their weapons stored in their rooms instead of dormitory armories. My hall, the 2 years I lived in it, was well armed, that is for sure...

 

[redneckdan]

MI CPL law states that dorms and class rooms are off limits, not the campus

 

[jefnvk]

True, but that turns into really a ban on campus. If I'm walking across campus, sure, I'm fine according to the law. However, I have no reason to be on campus unless I am working on projects or attending class, or living there. I can think of exactly two reasons I have been on campus in the last year in which I was not doing schoolwork or in the dorms, and both of those times involved me in classrooms (I don't want to be the test case on what a classroom is) anyways.

 

[Conqueror]

During my time @ Tech I had half a dozen firearms in the Armory in Wads. Might not have been the smartest (nor legal) thing to do but after the 3rd time of the RA not getting his happy hung-over butt out of bed at 4 am so that I could "check out" my rifle during firearm deer season, it somehow ended up beneath my couch in my room (I had my own room), same went for the shotgun and the bow as I was shooting league (both archery and trap) and was heavily involved in the MTU Archery club at the time and finding someone of "authority" to check firearms in and out was a real hassle as I was doing this on a daily occasion all year between leagues and hunting.

I wasn't the only one...

The 90's were a bit different of a time I reckon but you still had to be discrete... I would NOT recommend trying that now...

I went to college more recently than that, and I rarely had fewer than 3 firearms in my dorm room. A couple people knew, but they were trustworthy. I could easily have kept it 100% secret if I had so desired. I didn't carry on campus, but I'll be damned if I was gonna get shot in my own home.

 

[jrfoxx]

During my time @ Tech I had half a dozen firearms in the Armory in Wads.

when I was there, I kept my Ruger Blackhawk and Russian sks in harcases, locked in my dorm room.Nobody cared.Friend across the hall did the same with his Ruger .22lr.After we'd go out shooting in the woods, we'd sit on the wall of our dorm (Co-ed Hall then, now McNair, unless they changed it again) and clean our guns.Nobody ever even seemed to notice.this was back in '92 though....
Also, Public Safety was unarmed then. in fact were they only unarmed police force (they were an actual police force, not "campus security, etc" somehow) left in the state.Houghton had it's first murder in 90 years while I was there.Apparently, things have changed quite a bit since then.....

 

[Double Naught Spy]

If you are caught in an open area in the residence hall, you may choose to fight back.

41magsnub replied

with?

Don't tell me that you are one of those gun folks who feels defenseless without a gun.

 

[wuchak]

Maybe the pamphlet should put a positive spin on things with something like this.

The deranged shooter in your school has killed little Mary Smith. This may be bad for her but it's good for you. Everyone knows you've had a crush on her since fall. Alive she wouldn't give you the time of day but now she'll save your life. This is your chance to snuggle up close with her like you've dreamed of for so long. Go ahead and lie down next to her (ignore the blood), pull her close (don't worry she'll still be warm), and while playing dead savor this one moment when you get to hold your beloved in your arms. At best playing dead cuddled with Mary will save you, at worst you'll die next to your love.

-Wuchak

 

[bluestarlizzard]

"The deranged shooter in your school has killed little Mary Smith. This may be bad for her but it's good for you. Everyone knows you've had a crush on her since fall. Alive she wouldn't give you the time of day but now she'll save your life. This is your chance to snuggle up close with her like you've dreamed of for so long. Go ahead and lie down next to her (ignore the blood), pull her close (don't worry she'll still be warm), and while playing dead savor this one moment when you get to hold your beloved in your arms. At best playing dead cuddled with Mary will save you, at worst you'll die next to your love."

now thats disturbed. *snicker*

 

[Aguila Blanca]

"with?"

probably your good looks and charm.

Harsh words

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Many of y'all are funny. You whine and moan how schools don't promote fighting back and then when does, you find all sorts of reasons to complain about it. Why? Because they are promoting fighting back in the manner you think is necessary. It isn't like Michigan Tech can promote illegal activities. They can't promote fighting back with guns given that it is illegal to have guns on campus, in the buildings, etc.

I realize y'all have poopoo'd things like playing dead. That is fine. However, it does have a success rate to show that it works, not great, but it works. I personally would not trust it to be effective, but if you check places like VT, Luby's, Columbine, and several other mass shootings, there are folks at each who performed in this manner and attributed it to saving their lives by not drawing attention to themselves and being apparently non-threatening. There are those at VT who were also shot subsequent times while playing dead, apparently out of frustration of the shooter who could not find new targets. So they were sitting ducks. Then again, a lot of the students were sitting ducks because they didn't attempt to fight back, hide, or play dead.

 

[ilcylic]

Don't forget, your rate of surviving a single gunshot wound to the torso, in America, is approximately 80%. Those are pretty good odds.

Given a terrible situation in which there is a man armed with a handgun shooting people, and you are unarmed, you have a much better chance of surviving a single shot to the torso taken while charging to disarm, than you do of surviving being shot in the back of the head while not fighting back.

And even if you do die, you may well save others.