Scope Advice/Questions

[blackd24]

I have 3 guns I am trying to finish off...

1. My 30-06 has a 4x12 buckmaster on it. I want to upgrade this scope to something with more magnification and better quality as I intend to use this for longer range hunting applications (100-300 yards). The rifle is very accurate as is, and I think a better scope and handloads will only increase accuracy and consistency. I am thinking something like the Vortex Viper 6.5-20 PA. Is that appropriate? Anything else in that price range (~$600) that would work better? With a 6.5 magnification, what is the closest shot that I could make on a deer?

2. I have an 18 inch AR in 223 that has a vortex strike eagle 1x8 on top of it. I have this rifle set up to sit on a bench and shoot small groups at 100 yards, and ring steel at 200 yards. I like the 1x8 because it gives me the flexibility for close up and distance shots. Which leads me to #3...

3. I just ordered a 300 blackout upper to find a home on a lower I have built. I plan to use this for <100 yard deer hunting, but also plan to load up plinking rounds for <100 yards. I think the Vortex mentioned in #2 would be perfect for this application.

Would it make sense to get a QD mount for the vortex 1x8 and switch back and forth? I think that would be a pain to rezero every time. Primary Arms has a 1x6 with a reticle that is specifically for 300 blackout. Does that make the most sense?

Any other suggestions for a good scope for <100 yard deer hunting 300 blackout AR?

 

[redneck2]

I’m a “higher magnification is usually better” guy, but I’d never put a 6.5-20 on a deer rifle, particularly for 100 yard minimum. I used a 4-14x 40 Leupold for years and it worked great. My current rifle has a 2-12 VX-6 but that’s above your price range.

I’d look at Meopta or Leupold, but that’s just me

IMO, your ultimate may be a Leupold VX-6 Firedot 3-18 but it’s way above your price point.

Not sure why a 12x isn’t adequate for 300 yards, but that’s a personal choice

Edit to add.....clarity and quality trumps magnification

 

[Varminterror]

For rifle #1, midway has special pricing right now on Bushnell DMR II 3.5-21x50mm FFP’s for $670. This blows the Viper 6.5-20x out of the water.

For #2 and #3, there are few things in the world more annoying than sharing one optic between two complete rifles. I’d personally just get another of the Vortex scopes if you like that 1-8x Strike Eagle. I have a couple, they work fantastically for the money.

No, the Primary Arms with the 300blk dedicated reticle does not make the most sense either.

 

[jmr40]

Your scope is a 4-12X scope, not a 4X12.

To be honest 4-12X is borderline too much magnification for big game hunting in most places, it is certainly as much as I'd want. I find something less than 4X far more useful than anything over 9X. Even in western states where longer shots are more common most shots are well under 100 yards. Too much magnification makes it hard to find the target when shots are up close and fast. Also when you get over 10X magnification most scopes do poorly in low light conditions. Exactly when most shots are taken.

I like something with 2-3X on the lower end and around 9-10X is plenty on the upper end. Especially at only 300 yards. It isn't hard to hit big game animals with 1X for each 100 yards of range. I shoot MOA out to 600 yards with a fixed 6X target scope.

The high magnification scopes above 10-12X on the higher end are intended for target shooting, or small varmints during mid day when light is good.

The 1-8X scope is a decent scope. But on an AR you'd be fine with a much cheaper 1-4X. I'd get 2 scopes instead of trying to make 1 scope work on different rifles

 

[Hugger-4641]

For the 30-06, the vortex is good, but I have a Burris E2 on my 700CDL SS and very happy with it. I have the Veracity on my 300wm, but that's slightly above your price point. If you are going to change scopes on that AR-15, I would definitely recommend the Burris quick change mount. I switch my M&P Sport II between a Strike Eagle and ATN X-sight and my zero is never off by more than 1/2 moa at 100yd.

 

[Bacon buster]

IMO that’s too much magnification. 16 power with good glass can be used way beyond what you’re wanting to do. Higher magnification shortens eye relief restricts field of view makes it harder to quickly acquire your shot amplifies shooter deficient quirks and can induce problems with mirage and parallax. Always use the lowest magnification you can and still clearly make your shot. I would drop money for clarity over magnification. I think you would be better served with better glass than a bigger picture. 6.5 power is going to be ok but inside 100 yards you probably won’t like it compared to a lower magnification

Swapping optics is Something I would avoid if possible. Pick up another lpvo and set it up.

 

[Bacon buster]

Just an example I shot out to 1k yards on 16 power. Not ideal for that but doable

 

[Walkalong]

Bushnell DMR II 3.5-21x50mm FFP’s for $670.

That's a really good deal, but I have one in the closet I got for $960 shipped with a "free" Kestrel Sportsman, plus I just picked up that half price Crimson Trace.

 

[Walkalong]

Just an example I shot out to 1k yards on 16 power. Not ideal for that but doable

Easily doable unless the targets are very small, and even then it's doable.

 

[Bacon buster]

How’s the glass in the dmr? What does it compare to roughly? Better or worse than the vortex in question?

 

[LoonWulf]

With a 6.5 magnification, what is the closest shot that I could make on a deer?

It really depends on shooter comfort I guess. I'm comfortable with 6.5x minimum magnification in almost any situation. I was just playing with my highest power scope, which is a 27X, and its useable at 10yds and not much slower than when its on 4.5x.
unless im still hunting REALLY thick short-range areas my scopes are usually just set at 6 even if they have a lower power setting.

That said my primary hunting rifles have a 3-15 Zeiss, and a 3.5-10 Leupold. The 280 might get one of my new Meopta 6.5-20x50s and the Zeiss might get moved to my .375 Ruger tho....haven't decided yet.

 

[Varminterror]

How’s the glass in the dmr? What does it compare to roughly? Better or worse than the vortex in question?

The Bushnell DMR II offers better clarity, brightness, and better resolution, with less CA than the Viper PA, let alone a better reticle and first focal plane reticle instead of SFP. The glass performance of the Bushnell is more comparable to the Razor, brighter and better resolution in fact, while the Razor brings a few upgraded features over the DMR II such as reticle illumination, locking elevation turret, etc. At $670, I can’t say I have touched a better scope at a lower price - it’s an exceptional value.

 

[Varminterror]

With a 6.5 magnification, what is the closest shot that I could make on a deer?

I shot my buck 3 years ago with a 6-24x50mm Viper HSLR set somewhere between 15-18x at 30yrds, once standing, and again on the run as he rounded a pond in front of my blind. I shot my buck last season with a Bushnell DMR II 3.5-21x50mm also at 15-18x from the same blind at a similar 35yrds. Shoot with both eyes open, and practice with your rifle. If I can do it, anyone can.

Field of View calcs are pretty straight forward. Scale your magnification and your range. It’s middle school algebra.

 

[blackd24]

Thanks for the replies, sounds like for the 30-06 I should stick with something in the range of 3-12 power, but upgrade glass quality.

I think I’ll stick with what I have on the 223 AR.

300 blackout set up - where would I find good info on bullet trajectory? Like I said, I want to use it for deer <100 yards. If I sight in at 50, are the crosshairs good from 20-100? Maybe I’ll go with another vortex strike eagle when PSA runs a package deal with the mount.

 

[Bacon buster]

You should download a ballistic app like TRASOL or strelok on your phone. It will help you see what’s going on with your bullet as it goes through the air.

 

[Bacon buster]

Will you be shooting super sonic or subsonic ammo?

 

[Bacon buster]

1.5 inch sight height: distance between center of your barrel to center of your optic

Using supersonic ammo you should be about 1 1/4” to 1 1/2 inches high at 50 yards which should put you right at three inches high at 100 yards giving you a point blank range of close to 200 yards. That keeps the bullet a maximum of 3 inches above or below the Crosshair out to 200 yards. In my experience hunting with rifles zeroed for point blank range allows you to put a shot on your target quickly and confidently out to that range with little compensation of bullet drop or rise. If you are not ever going to shoot past 100 yards then zero at that distance and shoot a target at every 25 yards out to that distance and measure the deviation from your point of aim to point of impact on all four targets. That’s called trajectory mapping. It’s simple effective and will help you understand what your gun/ammo is doing

 

[Walkalong]

6/6.5 is too high on the low end for hunting around here, terrible FOV. 2/3 max on the low end for me, although I could live with one of the new 4.5-?x? scopes if I had to.

The 2-10x50 on my .308 is about perfect. The 2.5-8 it replaced was great as well.

 

[Varminterror]

1.5 inch sight height: distance between center of your barrel to center of your optic

AR scope mounts/rings are typically 1.4-1.6” tall from the rail to the center of the scope, meaning the sight height over bore axis ends up ~2.4-2.6”, not 1.5”.

 

[redneck2]

I was on a pronghorn hunt in Montana. I had an older 6-5-24x40 VX-III. It had a narrower field of view than the newer VX-3’s. Since pronghorn are typically taken at longer range it would be fine. Until it wasn’t

We found a large herd with a big dominant buck. Probably bordering record book. They were maybe 50-60 yards over a rock ledge. When I eased over for the shot, they started milling around. I couldn’t pick the buck from the does. Never got a shot

 

[Bacon buster]

I should have clarified a little better. The 1.5 sight height was relative to the other info I posted with it not necessarily the ar platform. Sight height should always be measured as with any other info. Advice was only meant as a guide. Thanks for pointing that out verminterror. Again always measure and verify everything on your own platform