scope on an AR 15 A2 carry handle
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Ifishsum
Member
I've done it temporarily for load development, it is high but can certainly work. No problems for me with a fixed 4X scope, I could see it being more difficult with higher power glass due to more finicky eye relief. A raised comb on the stock for a more consistent cheek weld would help if a scope was going to stay mounted.
ontarget
Member
I think Cabelas sells a mount that bolts into the cary handle. My son tried one and it did work but was high. Try it with a raised cheek piece.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Mounting a scope on the handle is obviously doable. One can say it is a good solution as you can still use the open sights with the correct mount with the hole bored through.
However in use, without a tall cheek riser, i cant use it as as easily or as consistently as a scope mounted on a flat top AR at a proper height for the stock.
However in use, without a tall cheek riser, i cant use it as as easily or as consistently as a scope mounted on a flat top AR at a proper height for the stock.
MtnCreek
Member
I had a red dot on an A2 for a while. My chin made contact with the A2 stock, not my cheek. There are good deals out there on stripped uppers if you wanted to swap it out for a flat top. Off memory, I think I paid around $70 / ea for BCM blem's a while back.
ApacheCoTodd
member
Cheek piece!
We had wonderful Hensoldt ZF scopes on our M-16A2s.
They went from Stanag to carry handle mount. Irons were still useable. The height required a somewhat awkward cheek (non) weld but they could be shot well without a cheek piece.
Most of us did the same as we did with M-21s and M-24s in that we used field dressings and 100 mile-an-hour tape to build "risers".
Later, we picked up simple manufactured risers like these but for me, since they usually use the rear sling attachment to secure them - they are too far to the rear.
These Colt versions go more forward with a cut-out for the charging lever.
The more common ones stop too far to the rear and still needed to be padded as my cheek bone is still in front of it with my preferred firing style - particularly in the prone position!
Todd.
We had wonderful Hensoldt ZF scopes on our M-16A2s.
They went from Stanag to carry handle mount. Irons were still useable. The height required a somewhat awkward cheek (non) weld but they could be shot well without a cheek piece.
Most of us did the same as we did with M-21s and M-24s in that we used field dressings and 100 mile-an-hour tape to build "risers".
Later, we picked up simple manufactured risers like these but for me, since they usually use the rear sling attachment to secure them - they are too far to the rear.
These Colt versions go more forward with a cut-out for the charging lever.
The more common ones stop too far to the rear and still needed to be padded as my cheek bone is still in front of it with my preferred firing style - particularly in the prone position!
Todd.
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243winxb
Member
The first ACOGs (around 1986) were designed to mount on the carry handle of the M16A2. The one I bought in 1988 came with machinists drawings for the location of the hole for the second mounting screw so you could take it to the machine shop and have it cut with an end mill. I did that and had the ACOG on the carry handle of my Colt AR15A2 HBAR for a few years. I didn't need a cheek piece, just had to raise my head a bit to use it.
They were mounting scopes on the carry handle for a couple decades before anyone ever built a flat top upper.
They were mounting scopes on the carry handle for a couple decades before anyone ever built a flat top upper.
kBob
Member
The Colt A2 HBAR came with a scope and the riser Apache Todd showed in some models. The scope was rubber armored. Mine came Iron sights only and I picked up that part at a gunshow for near nothing. I works fine
Between the scope and the cheek riser I am seriously considering one of the improved charging handles, but the rifle does work as is.
Oddly I knew someone that carved a piece of wood to look like the portion of the Colt cheek riser in the early 1970-'s and Used 100 mph tape ( GI duck tape) to set it on an M-16A1 with a 4 power on it. As both the scope and cheek riser had to be removed every time he turned the rifle in and reinstalled anytime he wanted to use them it rapidly fell from favor. He drew up a design for a butt stock that resembled an MG42 butt with the idea of being able to rest the front of the rifle on a bipod and stabilize the rifle with the left hand on that fish tail and be able to mount that cheek riser permanently on the stock for dedicated scope use. He played with carving the butt from wood, but nothing came of it.
-kBob
Between the scope and the cheek riser I am seriously considering one of the improved charging handles, but the rifle does work as is.
Oddly I knew someone that carved a piece of wood to look like the portion of the Colt cheek riser in the early 1970-'s and Used 100 mph tape ( GI duck tape) to set it on an M-16A1 with a 4 power on it. As both the scope and cheek riser had to be removed every time he turned the rifle in and reinstalled anytime he wanted to use them it rapidly fell from favor. He drew up a design for a butt stock that resembled an MG42 butt with the idea of being able to rest the front of the rifle on a bipod and stabilize the rifle with the left hand on that fish tail and be able to mount that cheek riser permanently on the stock for dedicated scope use. He played with carving the butt from wood, but nothing came of it.
-kBob
I think that was the Colt Delta HBAR. I think it was a Tasco rubber armored 3x9 scope. Probably more collectable then practical. I think they marketed a 10mm 1911 type pistol along with the Delta HBAR. Both rifle and pistol had a circular insert in the grip that was red with a black triangle IIRC.
I use them some. Most of the AR's Ive had have been carry handle guns. The one flat top gun, I couldnt find a scope mount I liked and ended up using my old carry handle mount anyways. The ONLY carry handle mount I've used that actually maintained a zero is an A.R.M.S. short mount*. Every other one, including a factory Colt 4x scope moved zero in anything resembling rough handling. The ARMS mount is very snug in every gun I've used it on, to the point of about taking the finish off the inside of the handle. Doesn't bother me if it works, which it does.
I got used to the higher cheek/chin mount on the stock. Not ideal, but works for deliberate shooting.
You can technically use the irons through a carry handle mount, but its not all that great of a sight picture in my mind. If I don't want to use the scope I take it off, or more to the point, leave it off unless I want to use it.
* Like this http://www.mountsplus.com/AR-15_Accessories/AR-15_Scope_Rings/ARMS-2.html
I got used to the higher cheek/chin mount on the stock. Not ideal, but works for deliberate shooting.
You can technically use the irons through a carry handle mount, but its not all that great of a sight picture in my mind. If I don't want to use the scope I take it off, or more to the point, leave it off unless I want to use it.
* Like this http://www.mountsplus.com/AR-15_Accessories/AR-15_Scope_Rings/ARMS-2.html
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
The ARMS A2 Plus is as good as it gets from carry handle optics mounting.
It bolts down, and clamps foreword.
So it can't move.
Sight visable under it if you don't have an optic on the lower rail.
And a mile of rail space on top, and over the handguard for red-dot.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=201914&d=1408761967
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=206043&d=1418880677
rc
It bolts down, and clamps foreword.
So it can't move.
Sight visable under it if you don't have an optic on the lower rail.
And a mile of rail space on top, and over the handguard for red-dot.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=201914&d=1408761967
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=206043&d=1418880677
rc
I've had an old Colt SP-1 for over 30 years with the OEM Colt 3x scope mounted on the handle.
Works for me - you just have to allow for the extra height AFA ballistics, and I have a big head so cheek weld is little / no problem for me.
Works for me - you just have to allow for the extra height AFA ballistics, and I have a big head so cheek weld is little / no problem for me.
MachIVshooter
Member
As mentioned, they sit high , but are usable. Cheek risers help, but are not necessary if you can get comfortable with contact being more middle of the cheek than touching the cheek bone. Of course, flat tops need risers to be comfortable. The ideal optic height is about halfway between carry handle and direct to flat top.
Regrettably traded away, I had an AR-10A2 carbine that always wore an optic.
Also have an M-15A2 carbine that dons a Burris Fastfire III most of the time, but I have a Redfield 3-9x attached to a Leupold mount that is also zeroed to that rifle.
Regrettably traded away, I had an AR-10A2 carbine that always wore an optic.
Also have an M-15A2 carbine that dons a Burris Fastfire III most of the time, but I have a Redfield 3-9x attached to a Leupold mount that is also zeroed to that rifle.
One aspect of the carry handle uppers that I actually prefer over the flat tops, when out walking around in the hills, my right thumb goes comfortably though the hole in the carry handle for carrying the gun in hand. The removable carry handles have smaller holes and aren't as comfortable to carry, I cant get my thumb through them in the usual way. Stuff attached to the flat top would have the same effect. I guess a sight on the back of the rail with nothing on the front would work about the same, but when I had a choice of uppers to use and a carry handle A2 surfaced, it didn't hurt my feelings in the least.
I really like the A2 sights also,(and yes, I use them to the full range they offer). I think they are excellent, and bombproof on a carry handle.
I really like the A2 sights also,(and yes, I use them to the full range they offer). I think they are excellent, and bombproof on a carry handle.
thanks guys , I picked up a scope yesterday Vortex 4x12 x 40 so I think I will see how it rides on the A2 dry fited if it seems ok I will get the mount if not I will put the scope on another rifle
My A2 has the fixed stock 20in HBAR barrel full sized rifle kind of a cool range rifle not the modern AR style stuff.
My A2 has the fixed stock 20in HBAR barrel full sized rifle kind of a cool range rifle not the modern AR style stuff.
Carry handle scope mount
I put a see through carry handle scope mount adapter on a bushmaster 6.8spc that came with the detachable carry handle. This put the sight height at 4". I was able to get a snap on cheek piece for my DPMS ,6 position stock; which gave a good cheek weld. The mount adapter had only one attachment thumb screw; so I drilled and tapped 2 ,1/8" Allen head set screws in the side of the adapter to prevent any possible forward or back shifting that might occur.
In a pinch where speed was of the essence and the scope was unusable, I could "crowd down" and use the iron sights or if time was not a factor, take off the cheek piece and use the irons.
According to the Hornady ballistic calculator' the bullet path stays closer to the line of sight farther out than a lower mounting. Also cant is easier to see.
I killed two bucks with this set up. Both were running at a bit over 100yds and this rig worked perfectly. ( Both one shot kills).
I have since changed to a standard scope set up but the only reason was to get rid of 8oz. of carry handle and adapter.
I put a see through carry handle scope mount adapter on a bushmaster 6.8spc that came with the detachable carry handle. This put the sight height at 4". I was able to get a snap on cheek piece for my DPMS ,6 position stock; which gave a good cheek weld. The mount adapter had only one attachment thumb screw; so I drilled and tapped 2 ,1/8" Allen head set screws in the side of the adapter to prevent any possible forward or back shifting that might occur.
In a pinch where speed was of the essence and the scope was unusable, I could "crowd down" and use the iron sights or if time was not a factor, take off the cheek piece and use the irons.
According to the Hornady ballistic calculator' the bullet path stays closer to the line of sight farther out than a lower mounting. Also cant is easier to see.
I killed two bucks with this set up. Both were running at a bit over 100yds and this rig worked perfectly. ( Both one shot kills).
I have since changed to a standard scope set up but the only reason was to get rid of 8oz. of carry handle and adapter.
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I used mine for prairie dog shooting at around 300 yards with a Leatherwood ART scope, which sits a little taller because of its ranging base. I had no troubles that I could attribute to canting. I was consistently hitting 6-7 for 10 off the hood of a truck.
Zerodefect
member
Blem flat top upper receivers are only $39.
AR-15Nutt
Member
i agree, i have an early issue (3 digit S/N) Colt AR-15 SP-1 with it's original Colt scope on it, i was told it came that way from the factory. ??
henschman
Member
There is absolutely no good reason to use a carry handle mounted optic when flat top uppers are so cheap and available. They require a huge and awkward cheek riser with a charging handle cutout if anything resembling proper fundamentals are to be used with them, and that creates mechanical problems of its own with such a large drop at comb, as well as really crazy ballistics with such a high height over bore.
"Cheek touch" or "chin touch" are not the same thing as cheek weld. A cheek weld is a lot more than just the cheek touching the stock -- it involves resting the entire weight of your head on the stock, with your neck muscles completely relaxed. It allows for much greater stability and consistency, stands up to recoil much better, allowing for much faster follow-up shots, and allows a shooter to remain in position for much longer without his neck becoming fatigued (especially in prone).
A carry handle mount is awkward and leads to poor fundamentals no matter how you look at it. Just don't do it. Get a $40 stripped upper and some vise blocks and switch the damn thing to a flat top, and take advantage of the massive selection of picatinny rail mounting solutions to get the optic at the proper height and position for a cheek WELD.
"Cheek touch" or "chin touch" are not the same thing as cheek weld. A cheek weld is a lot more than just the cheek touching the stock -- it involves resting the entire weight of your head on the stock, with your neck muscles completely relaxed. It allows for much greater stability and consistency, stands up to recoil much better, allowing for much faster follow-up shots, and allows a shooter to remain in position for much longer without his neck becoming fatigued (especially in prone).
A carry handle mount is awkward and leads to poor fundamentals no matter how you look at it. Just don't do it. Get a $40 stripped upper and some vise blocks and switch the damn thing to a flat top, and take advantage of the massive selection of picatinny rail mounting solutions to get the optic at the proper height and position for a cheek WELD.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I hate to disagree with you.
But there is a very good reason.
Say, like me, you had a Colt SP-1 Carbine your wife bought you NIB in 1971 that still looks and runs like new.
Would you start wrenching on it at this late date in time???
I'd like a differnt pisto grip, and a flat top upper on it now that there are such things available.
But I ain't touching it as long as it still works like it always has.
rc
I wouldn't touch an original SP-1 either, but I would plop a different complete upper on it for scoped use.
Outside of a collectible AR or something meant to be kept in it's original config for sentimental reasons, there is no use for mounting on the carry handle. I was super happy when the Army stopped issuing the darn things (detachable with M4) and I didn't have to keep track of them anymore...
Outside of a collectible AR or something meant to be kept in it's original config for sentimental reasons, there is no use for mounting on the carry handle. I was super happy when the Army stopped issuing the darn things (detachable with M4) and I didn't have to keep track of them anymore...
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