Scope vs. Peep Sight for Load Development

[DillHarris]

I did a search and found some good info, but nothing directly addressing my question.

I have a Winchester 94 30-30 (1973 vintage). It currently has a Williams 5D peep sight on it. I want to develop a good laod for this rifle. The problem is that with the sight I can't group good enough to really test the ammo. I usually group two to three inches at 50 yards. I just can't get a good enough sight picture. It just seems that after a certain point, all I'm testing is the shooter and not the load. I see people posting how a peep sight is good enough and scopes on old lever actions is close to heresy. I am rather enamored with the ol' thutty-thutty with a peep, but I also want to be able to test the most accurate load so I can learn the limitations of the peep and my skills as a shooter. Any recommendations for or against a B-Square mount and scope for load development? Does anyone find it necessary to use a scope for developing the best possible load?

I know, the more I practice the better I'll get. I shot a friend's scoped Remington VLS .308 and shot a .6" group (3-shots, not 5) at 100 yards. I'm no great shot, but I certainly had a lot more confidence exactly where point of aim was with the scope. I'm not expecting .308 accuracy from my 30-30.

Your thoughts and experience would be greatly appreciated. One other note, the front sight is the factory standard bead. Thanks and have a good one.

 

[Charles S]

Dill,

I have a very similar rifle and I love to hunt with it.

Since I did not want optics I developed my load without optics and I am happy with what I did.

However most individuals would be much better off using optics to really test the accuracy of their loads.

The truth of the matter is if you shots are generally short then you will do fine without optics.

You might want to try Winchester primers IMR 4895 in the (30-31.5 gr range) and Remington 170 gr Corlokt bullets for a load that is cheap and performs very well on game.

This load shoots well in my guns.

 

[DillHarris]

Thanks Charles. Appreciate the reply. Most of my hunting (what little I do) is usually in woods where you can see 75 yards max, hence I went with the peep sight. Does your rifle shoot the 170 gr bullets better than the 150's? I've got a box of Remington facotry 150's and 170's that I am going to compare. Right now I've got the 150 gr Cor-Lokts for reloading and am using W748. I'm using the Winchester primers. I'll look up IMR 4895. Thanks a lot and have a good one.

 

[Charles S]

Dill,

My gun actually shoots the 150 better in most loadings, but for some reason liked the 170 Corlokt with IMR 4895 the most.

Just so you know a very close second was the 150 CorLokt and W748 with Winchester Primers.

I got a little better velocity and a little better accuracy with the 170 and IMR loading (very minor) and at the time Midway ran a sale of 500 170 gr Corlokts so that is the way I went.

I doubt I would ever be able to tell the difference in the two loads in the field on game. Although I do occasionally shoot some large hogs so the extra bullet weight gives me a little insurance.

 

[TimT]

in them good ole days when ammo was really cheap, practicing with irons was a good thing. Today for example I use both peeps and scopes. For load development and that is what reloading is about-getting the most out of ones rifle is to preferably use a scope and then if you want to mount your peep back on later and the confidence level for your particular bullet is a sound thing.

My favorite rifle thus far to date is my Rem. 30 rebored to the .338-06 and I have found a nice Redfield 70R to install- just quite appealing. I have bought some 2 boxes of NorthFork 225 gr. bullets and am really leaning to the scope for "precise" shooting in load development. Once that is done then I will take the bases/scope off and turn to the Redfield.

My Winch. 94 .30-30AI is with a Williams as yours and I shoot 170 Partitions with RL15. Moose and bears here present themselves a bigger target so it is a practical thing for me-brush most everywhere.

good shooting

 

[DillHarris]

Thanks for the replies guys. Thanks for confirming what I thought would probably be best. Biggest game I'll be pursuing is Missouri whitetail, so I'll see what the 150's can do and make the 170's the next project. Charles, glad to hear that W748 worked well for you. Tim, the Ackley Improved has fascinated me, but the rifle was given to me by my father-in-law, who got it from his father-in-law, and I want to be able to make it factory stock again. I've got the original box and receipt. I appreciate the direction and you guys take care. Happy hunting. Dill.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I have a 1948 vintage Winchester .30 WCF with the original buckhorn sights on it. It shoots right fine with these sights. You might want to return to the original sights too. My .30-30 shoots to a three inch dot at 100 yards consistantly. I load a Speer 170 grain FNSP over 32 grains of W-748 in Winchester or Remington cases using a CCI-200 primer giving me almost 2100 fps. More then enough to do the job within .30-30 ranges of 150 yards or less.

Good luck getting it right...And have fun doing it...

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Are you shooting it off the bench? I have found that 94's need a lot of care to shoot accurately off the bench with irons or peeps. I know my 94 is solely limited by my ability to aim it well.

Here is mine with 150's and 30 grns of 3031 as I remember it, off the bench at 100 yrds with irons. This is 50 shots on a good day.

 

[DillHarris]

Hope I didn't imply that good shooting couldn't be accomplished with iron sights. I know that some shooters can get amazing accuracy with iron sights. The only problem is I can't, yet. That's going to recquire a lot of practice, and I still want to be able to shoot the irons. I think I'll be able to develop loads better with a scope though. That way after I shoot a 6" group at 50 yards I won't have to ask myself if I shot bad or if I just made bad ammo. You guys shoot some really nice groups and give me something to work for. Thanks. I'll also make sure to hang on to the laods you shared and give them a try (worked up properly of course). That's some nice shooting Mr. Eick. I have to admit, part of me wants to scope it just to get as good as groups as possible so I don't have to listen to epople tell me how inaccurate the 30-30 is. You guys have proven otherwise.

Hey Bushmaster, how's the country in Ava. I'm around St. Louis, but have a buddy who knows one of the brothers down in the monastery there. I hunt at my uncle's place in Wayne County. Is the area around Ava as hilly, rocky, and pretty?

Thanks again. Much appreciated.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Yup...It sure is...Green too.