Scoping a 1917 Enfield

[mljdeckard]

Several years before he died, my dad put a no-drill, no-tap scope mount on my grandfather's old 1917 Enfield. He kind of went halfway, Removed the front sight, and the guts to the rear sight, but no permanent alterations, just in case. I think I still have the pieces somewhere. Dad died a few years ago, and I have the rifle. He put a Bushnell 3200 3x9 on it, but if he ever shot it, he never told me about it.

So I finally got around to benching it today to see what I have to work with. I got some federal premium and went to the range and benched it. And.....it's all over the place. I quit after 8 rounds when two hit in the opposite corners of the paper. The bore is pretty, and I managed a couple of inches with it at 100 when I was a teenager with the iron sights.

SO, where do I look? The glass, rings, and mount all feel solid. Nothing jiggles or moves. What is the order I should take to re-install everything?

OR, should I have the rear sight base ground off, and put a conventional scope mount on it? It was sporterized decades ago, I'm not sentimental about it, and I have no desire to run it with iron sights. I have read that the steel in these guns is so hard, you have to plan on ruing a tap set to do the job at all. Is it worth it?

 

[tahunua001]

I'm personally a purist. I hate it to see the wings ground off and the rifle drilled and tapped and it's your property, do as you please. however, if it were mine, I would restore it.

 

[wendellgj]

I have one P 17 that was cut and tapped for two piece weaver scope bases and one is slightly miss-aligned causing problems. I corrected by using a slightly undersized 1" dia. round wrapped with wet 600 grit media to correct by lapping scope ring bores. I spent years looking for one with pristine metal inside and out that will never be cut up in my lifetime. Two individuals spent countless hours working the 1st P 17 into a wonderful shooter that has been taking deer, antelope, elk, and has passed up many bears, moose, and some dangerous critters over a period of 55 years with the original stock and barrel. The 2nd P 17 I mention is all original except for the stock as it has been shortened. It also has a mirror bore, no rust, visible surface pitting, and I would personally go find another that were either produced by the millions or already cut. There just were not many P17 3006 manufactured and it appears most were altered.

 

[Willie Sutton]

Do yourself, your dad's memory, and future generations a favor: Put that scope stuff in a nice box and put the rifle back into original condition. It's both financially more that way, will be a better shooter, and will preserve a rifle. Bubba is forever. Don't be a Bubba... and note that you can buy a nice civilian .30-06 used for what it would cost to Bubba that one.

As an original configuration rifle it will be a beauty to shoot and admire. Pass it down when you are done.

Willie

.

 

[AlexanderA]

It was sporterized decades ago

By "sporterized," what do you mean exactly? As long as the receiver and barrel are intact, it can be restored fairly easily.

I was at the Nation's Gun Show yesterday. M1917 Enfields in original condition were selling for upwards of $900.

Don't do any further damage to it.

 

[Art Eatman]

"I have one P 17 that was cut and tapped for two piece weaver scope bases and one is slightly miss-aligned causing problems."

From nothing but curiosity, is the misaligned base the rear one? Where the ears were ground off, does it look like some poor work with a file? Barrel cut back? Bishop stock?

 

[mtrmn]

My grandfather gave me his Eddystone. Fully original far as I can tell. I removed the rear sight and installed a S/K no gunsmithing mount with a Bushnell scope. Easily shoots 1" at 100 with handloads it likes. All I have to do to restore it is remove the mount and put the rear sight back on.

The S/K is the only mount I know of that doesn't require permanent modifications. This is most likely what you have. I'm at work now and can't look at the mount, so I don't remember just what keeps it steady.

found it: http://scopemounts.com/index.html?main.html

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If you still have the original iron sight parts, I'd put them back on and use it that way.

If you don't have the original parts I'd check Gun Parts Corp and other sources and see if I could find them.

 

[mljdeckard]

I will admit, you guys have me thinking hard.

It has been put in a different stock, the sights have been removed, and it has been re-blued.

Resale means nothing, it is never leaving the family.

I want to run it scoped, it is the only -06 I currently possess, and I would like to start shooting it for distance. But if I have to start over either way, I know the sights work. The scope doesn't and I don't know why. It might be that simple.

 

[mljdeckard]

And there are a variety of other things I could do with the glass.

 

[mtrmn]

I know you already know this, but have you tried several different types ammo? Mine loves Nosler ballistic tips, 150 gr with 57 gr IMR 4350. But some of the other loads I tried shot shotgun patterns instead of groups. Ammo makes the biggest difference in accuracy in my experience.

If other ammo doesn't help, I'd pull the scope and see just what holds that mount on there and make 100% sure something's not loose. Then put another scope when I went back just in case the 3200 is screwed up somehow. Personally I've never seen a bad Bushnell elite but it's possible. I would NOT mill the ears off. If the mount is still in question, the S&K I referenced before works fine on mine. I saw them on Brownells site for 65 bucks.

 

[mljdeckard]

If I didn't already know that the rifle shoots better than this with iron sights, I would say it could be the ammo. But I do. And I have never seen ammo make a spread like this. (More than 12".) Federal match.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If it won't shoot with the scope, there are four possibilities:

1. There's something wrong with the scope. Try switching to another scope.

2. There's something wrong with the mounts. Check the screws. Try putting a witness mark (a scratch on the mount and receiver) and shooting the gun, banging the butt on the floor, and see if the mount is moving.

3. There's something wrong with the rifle -- bad bedding, and so on.

4. There's something wrong with the ammunition -- are you shooting quality factory ammol?

 

[HankB]

The "no drill, no tap" mount is what I'd be most suspicious of as the source of bad groups, with the 'scope second. A military rifle with a decent bore and good ammo (the Federal Premium you used is good ammo) should, at worst, give you a palm-sized group at 100 yards; if it's barely staying on the paper, I'd look to the sighting system as the problem.

As for the rifle itself . . . 1917 Enfields can make very nice custom rifles; in fact, the A-Square rifle company used to use them as the basis of their "Hannibal" big game rifles, in cartridges up to .500 A-Square, which is a .460 Weatherby necked up.

But a LOT of 1917s have been "sporterized" and the way the current collector's market for old military rifles is shaping up, I'd be a lot more inclined to put the rifle back in original military issue condition.

 

[Averageman]

Based upon this.
It has been put in a different stock, the sights have been removed, and it has been re-blued.
Resale means nothing, it is never leaving the family.
I want to run it scoped, it is the only -06 I currently possess, and I would like to start shooting it for distance. But if I have to start over either way, I know the sights work. The scope doesn't and I don't know why. It might be that simple.
I would be suspicous of the mount. I have had a bit of experiance with these and it wasn't the best mount.
If you want to scope it, go ahead and have if drilled and tapped. All collectors value has already been compromised, now you can pretty much do anything you like to make it a family heirloom that you'll enjoy and pass down in the future.
Have funn with it and let us know what you do.