Scraping the bore w/ cleaning rod - ruining the gun?

[usmarine0352_2005]

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Looking at buying a one-piece cleaning rod and I read how they they won't pick up grit and scrape the rifling and bore ruining it. I am looking at getting a one-piece cleaning rod to clean both rifles and muzzleloaders.



1.) How realistic is it that you will scrape the bore and ruin it?





I also shoot 2 Muzzleloaders and was looking at getting the one-piece cleaning rod to make it easier since they are bit longer then the standard muzzleloader rod.



I use a Muzzleloader and you are always ramming the rod down the bore, loading and cleaning and it scrapes the bore.



Muzzleloader ram rods have an end like this, which obviously scrapes the bore:









2.) Is it more less important to maintain the bore of a Muzzleloader then it is a regular rifle?



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[unwise11]

Muzzle loaders get dirty and during hunter safety course they instructed that they must be cleaned often as they have corrosive powder.

 

[Hatterasguy]

I like Dewey cleaning rods.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Todays muzzle loaders have breech plugs that are easily removable making cleaning much easier and you will be protecting your "muzzle crown" as well. More or less it is that which messes things up with stainless rods and such. With rifles, it is always best to clean from the breech side but you should also use some form of protector for the chamber edge as well such as a bore guide. If the only way to clean your weapon is from the muzzle side, a brass rod would be best to use.

 

[BrocLuno]

I think it's more the crown and the rifling near the muzzle. The crown is fairly easily damaged, but also easy to protect. there are centering cones for your cleaning rod that protect the muzzle or the chamber from getting hit by the rod. Once the rod is in the bore, it's nearly concentric and can't do much damage.

I also wrap electrical tape in a big spiral around the rod so only soft plastic can touch the rifling. That's a poor mans way of protecting until you get a good one piece rod. But you'll still need the cones, even with a one piece rod as it can drag on one side of the muzzle if cleaning from the front

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

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I always take out the breech plug and clean from the chamber.




So you don't think that that the rough edges of that rod in the picture would damage the rifling?



What about what the cleaning rods say, "That grit will get onto the rod if it's coated nylon and damage the rifling."?

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[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

So you don't think that that the rough edges of that rod in the picture would damage the rifling?

If a copper jacketed bullet traveling at 2600fps+ won't hurt your rifling, a little ribbed nylon won't either. There is a lot of "hype" out there from the "marketers" to try to get you to by the newest, latest, greatest, invention since sliced bread and to put it bluntly, about 85% of it is pure horse crap. Now, riding a stainless steel rod along your muzzle crown can and WILL damage it. Same with riding it along your chamber/breech opening. Most of todays barrels are made with either chromoly steel or stainless steel. Both of which are very durable (obviously) and can withstand a little "grit in the rod" and you would be very hard pressed to "damage" rifling with it.

 

[Picher]

Scratching one material by another requires that the material is harder than the other. A softer rod will not scratch a harder barrel. However, the primer grit, which often includes glass particles, can be harder than either. Fouling and primer grit that can attach to a soft rod will wear both the rod and lands. The crown is the most critical part of a bore.

Copied from my comments on another thread: The crown isn't the only part of the bore that's critical. The last inch of bore is the second most important part. Rifles that are cleaned from the muzzle end, (especially those with micro-groove rifling), can be worn by the grit that accumulates on the cleaning rod. I liken it to a Remington Rod Saw, but to a much lesser degree. Perfectly straight, polished stainless steel rods, wiped after every patch or brush sroke will cause less wear than softer rods. It's not the rod, but what sticks to it that will cause the problems. Primer grit, especially when mixed with metal fouling, can stick to coated or soft metal rods.

Bolt-actions are cleaned from the breech end and rods should just clear the muzzle, to minimize wear at that critical location. Brushes should be removed at the muzzle and never dragged back across the crown. For that reason, I grind off most of the threads on my brushes, so a quick twist removes them after they clear the muzzle.

Hunters who shoot once a year and shoot a deer, then clean again will probably never wear out a bore. Hunters bores usually rust/pit from lack of cleaning and protection. Hoppe's #9 bore cleaner is not adequate protection. I use Break-Free after cleaning with other products, but it also cleans quite well.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

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Picher, interesting. I have pushed a brush all the way out of the end of the rifle bore from the chamber and pulled it back it, I'll stop doing that.


What about pushing it down into the bore and then back up and then down, without going all of the way out, is that ok?



I have a plastic bucket with two plastic bags that I put the barrel in when I shoot CVA muzzleloader cleaning foam down the barrel. I've rested the barrel in there and let it sit there, that shouldn't affect the crown correct, since the plastic is softer then the metal?

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[Ruger GP100 fan]

Shortly after buying my first gun...a SS revolver...I bought a jug of Remington 40X bore Cleaner. A couple or 3 months later I bought a rifle w/SS barrel. I've been using the 40X in both,pushing a wet patch through it,then another wet patch,but I never leave it in the barrel any longer than it takes to run several dry patches through the barrels until they come out dry. Then,a patch wet with a couple of drops of gun oil followed up by dry patches until they come out dry. Am I doing enough or too much,particularly the rifle that gets this done about every 20-30 rounds. I'm using a copper(colored) rod I bought at WalMart w/centering cone for the revolver and Dewey w/bore guide for the rifle. And,of course,the rods gets a good wipe with a clean rag prior to entering barrels.

Am I in the ballpark?

 

[Varob]

Use a Bore Snake, that should take care of it.

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

A few posts up it was mentioned that all copper remover has to be removed from the barrel. How can one know a bore snakes does that?

 

[c919]

What about pushing it down into the bore and then back up and then down, without going all of the way out, is that ok?

Without going into all of the other stuff, I will say NEVER do that. That will damage a bore very quickly.

BTW: I like Dewey rods, never had a problem.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

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C919:



Good to know. I'll stop doing that.

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[ironhead7544]

I know a top muzzle loader shooter who is also a gunsmith. He makes his own rods from stainless steel. Uses delrin bushings at the muzzle and also on the rod itself to keep it from touching the bore.

I have seen many types of firearm muzzles worn to a bell shape. The crown is critical to acurracy so use a muzzle protector at least on all rods. I like the type that fits the bore but the cone type is OK too.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

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If a bronze brush is a fairly soft metal how can it damage the rifling, bore, or crown?


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[Art Eatman]

Cleaning a BP rifle means cleaning out a bunch of powder residue and some lead.

Cleaning a centerfire means the occasional need to remove copper.

Two different deals, so be clear when you post.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

Re Centerfire cleaning:
If primers deposit glass particles in the bore
and
if copper jacketed bullets are fired in a dirty barrel
won't
shooting cause as much wear as cleaning with a soft (i.e. aluminum) rod?

IOW, if cleaning with a soft aluminum rod will wear out a bore, then so will shooting jacketed bullets.

I was once a fan of Dewey rods. Bought a passel of them. Noticed they'd changed the coating somewhere along the line. Contact with rifling at the muzzle would peel the new thin coating right off leaving the steel of the rod exposed. Called Dewey and was told the exposed steel wouldn't bother anything. It was then that I realized that cleaning rod material is a fetish issue. I went back to cheap Hoppes soft aluminum rods.

I've been shooting and cleaning with soft aluminum rods for 50 years with no problems. The only bore I've known to have been worn out by cleaning was cleaned using a steel rod.
Bob

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

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I just purchased a Tipton Carbon Fiber rod, so that shouldn't scratch anything and I hope that it lasts a long time.


So........


For a Muzzleloader: If a bronze brush is a fairly soft metal how can it damage the rifling, bore, or crown?




For a rifle: If a bronze brush is a fairly soft metal how can it damage the rifling, bore, or crown?


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[JohnBT]

Little wear doesn't mean no wear. Water smooths river rocks given enough time. And we want our guns to last for generations, right?

Reversing the rod direction in the bore will wear out a brush in a hurry. Ever break a paperclip by bending it back and forth?

John

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

Little wear doesn't mean no wear. Water smooths river rocks given enough time. And we want our guns to last for generations, right?

Reversing the rod direction in the bore will wear out a brush in a hurry. Ever break a paperclip by bending it back and forth?

John

John, goood point.


So basically pushing the brush forward and back will wear out the brush quicker, but not the bore.


And basically whenever you are shooting or cleaning a gun you are wearing down the bore, even though it might be a minute amount.

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[627PCFan]

That looks like a TC Rod. When you have the tip with the larger than rod diameter on it, its geometrically impossible to get rub that serrated section on any part of the bore. That being said, the first .5 -.75 inches of your muzzleloader barrel isnt rifled, to allow you to insert the sabot without too much resistance. No way to scratch the rifling at the end if there isnt any-

 

[HKGuns]

Like someone said above....The rod's messing up your bore is complete horse-#$%$ in my opinion. Snake-oil sold by those wanting to sell you $35 carbon fiber, single piece rods. A bullet is doing far more damage than you could spending hours doing nothing but ramming the rod back and forth repeatedly.

I've always found an aluminum rod with brass brush is more than safe for all of my rifles and I'm pretty picky about how I take care of my stuff.

This may offend some of those who've already purchased the big $$ bore kits.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

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HKGuns, well, I already ordered that expensive ($29) dollar rod. I hope it lasts awhile.


lol.




It's .22-27 caliber and I bought adapters, so it should work for any gun I own and last a long time. Plus, I usually use bore snakes for most of my cleaning.

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[JohnBT]

"This may offend some of those who've already purchased the big $$ bore kits."

Nah man, you being wrong doesn't offend me.


edited to add: Ever heard the saying, it might not be hurting it but it sure isn't doing it any good?