luzyfuerza
Member
I am not in the business of creating internet content. I don't own ballistic jell-o, or even a video camera. I'm just a guy who has his own range and some free time, and who sometimes carries a .38 special snubbie as a BUG.
I was curious about how various types of .38 special self defense ammo would perform when fired through my S&W 442, Ruger LCR, and Taurus 856. All three of these guns are "hammerless", or DAO. I wanted to see 1) if there was a measurable difference in group size and 2) POA-vs-POI for various ammo through each gun. While I was at it, I also wanted to see 3) how some of the SD rounds available for purchase in my area expanded in bare water jugs when fired from my 442.
Why shoot water jugs?
Well, because water jugs is a media that is ideal for creating bullet expansion. If a bullet doesn't expand when fired from a particular gun into water jugs, then it almost certainly won't expand when fired into gel, a meat target, or into an adversary. However, if a bullet does expand in water jugs all we know for sure is that it might expand in gel, a meat target, or an adversary. Water jugs are a way of distinguishing the boys from the men, so to speak. It doesn't tell us which of the men will work best in a fight.
Water jugs don't provide any information about penetration.
Shooting water jugs is what it is.
Lucky Gunner Labs and many others have done penetration and expansion testing in gel for some of the rounds I chose to test. I'm not trying to replicate any of their work. I'm just trying to understand how a variety of ammo works in my guns.
All groups are for five shots. POI is estimated from the center of the group.
Things I think I learned:
1) The 856 held its own when compared to results from the 442 and the LCR. I've smoothed out trigger components and opened the forcing cone gap on the 856, but haven't yet installed a lighter spring kit. The triggers on the 442 and LCR are MUCH better. I was amazed that group sizes and POA-vs-POI were pretty comparable between the three guns.
2) I couldn't discern a consistent difference in vertical POI when firing heavier vs lighter projectiles for any of these guns at ten yards. This might be more apparent when shooting at greater distances. But I chose to test at ten yards because I virtually never carry a snubby as a primary, and therefore for me they are a short range tool.
3) I was disappointed in expansion of the Hornaday 125 grain XTP and the Magtech 158 grain SJHP. And how the 110 grain Silvertip broke apart.
4) The Remington Golden Saber 125 grain +P shot decent groups and pretty much to point of aim in my carry guns, expands well in water jugs and clear gelatin, and penetrates reasonably deeply. It is my choice for carry ammo at the moment.
5) The 856 rotated the cylinder correctly on every shot. I did not observe any of the failures to rotate that have been noted elsewhere (e.g. https://youtu.be/yovjaagE_0A?si=6wi4iw6gy5UkSLmj).
6) As the creator of the Box 'O Truth often noted: "The sun was shining, it was a lovely day, and it was fun shooting stuff."
Here's my data:
ETA expansion data on Winchester Elite 130 gr JHP +P Defend ammo.
I was curious about how various types of .38 special self defense ammo would perform when fired through my S&W 442, Ruger LCR, and Taurus 856. All three of these guns are "hammerless", or DAO. I wanted to see 1) if there was a measurable difference in group size and 2) POA-vs-POI for various ammo through each gun. While I was at it, I also wanted to see 3) how some of the SD rounds available for purchase in my area expanded in bare water jugs when fired from my 442.
Why shoot water jugs?
Well, because water jugs is a media that is ideal for creating bullet expansion. If a bullet doesn't expand when fired from a particular gun into water jugs, then it almost certainly won't expand when fired into gel, a meat target, or into an adversary. However, if a bullet does expand in water jugs all we know for sure is that it might expand in gel, a meat target, or an adversary. Water jugs are a way of distinguishing the boys from the men, so to speak. It doesn't tell us which of the men will work best in a fight.
Water jugs don't provide any information about penetration.
Shooting water jugs is what it is.
Lucky Gunner Labs and many others have done penetration and expansion testing in gel for some of the rounds I chose to test. I'm not trying to replicate any of their work. I'm just trying to understand how a variety of ammo works in my guns.
All groups are for five shots. POI is estimated from the center of the group.
Things I think I learned:
1) The 856 held its own when compared to results from the 442 and the LCR. I've smoothed out trigger components and opened the forcing cone gap on the 856, but haven't yet installed a lighter spring kit. The triggers on the 442 and LCR are MUCH better. I was amazed that group sizes and POA-vs-POI were pretty comparable between the three guns.
2) I couldn't discern a consistent difference in vertical POI when firing heavier vs lighter projectiles for any of these guns at ten yards. This might be more apparent when shooting at greater distances. But I chose to test at ten yards because I virtually never carry a snubby as a primary, and therefore for me they are a short range tool.
3) I was disappointed in expansion of the Hornaday 125 grain XTP and the Magtech 158 grain SJHP. And how the 110 grain Silvertip broke apart.
4) The Remington Golden Saber 125 grain +P shot decent groups and pretty much to point of aim in my carry guns, expands well in water jugs and clear gelatin, and penetrates reasonably deeply. It is my choice for carry ammo at the moment.
5) The 856 rotated the cylinder correctly on every shot. I did not observe any of the failures to rotate that have been noted elsewhere (e.g. https://youtu.be/yovjaagE_0A?si=6wi4iw6gy5UkSLmj).
6) As the creator of the Box 'O Truth often noted: "The sun was shining, it was a lovely day, and it was fun shooting stuff."
Here's my data:
ETA expansion data on Winchester Elite 130 gr JHP +P Defend ammo.
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