Seattle Pacific University Shooting

[david58]

I received about the second worst call intro I could have from my son, about ten minutes after the shooting - "Dad, I'm ok, but…."

For the two or three of you that don't know, a nutcase wanting to replicate Columbine walked into the foyer of a building at Seattle Pacific University, and shot three students, killing one.

The gunman was heroically subdued by a senior who was manning the front desk in the building, tackling the shooter and putting him into a choke hold. Other SPU students joined in and restrained the shooter (hopefully, painfully) until police arrived.

How often, in our "crawl under the desk and shelter-in" system of educating our kids, have we heard of the kids standing up and saying "No!"? In contrast, at VaTech, the kids remained under their desks while the shooter reloaded, and then continued killing.

I am proud of the kid that tackled the shooter, at the risk of his life. Other students, when ordered to gather kids in one engineering lab, grabbed pipes and remained behind the door, planning to do damage to anyone that entered. Protecting their family, not cowering helplessly. Family is the work the students on that campus use to describe themselves, and it undoubtedly motivated the young man that rushed the shooter (a young man getting married in two weeks - a reason to give him pause, you'd think).

Personally, I believe that the faith of the kids was their motivation - as one student said, "… this was evil and we can't stand by and let it happen." I could wax lyrical about the school, students, and administration there, but I will spare you - let's just say I have always been impressed.

But, to keep this on the strategies and tactics page, what do you teach your kids or significant others. Especially those attending one of those "gun free zones" type of schools (SPU does not have armed security). I've taught my sons that in a situation like this, hiding under a desk will get them killed, and if they are going down, take the shooter, too. Oversimplified a bit, but I've been typing a lot and am tired….But abbreviated, make a choice - run TO or run FROM, but don't cower there and be a target.


What do you teach your kids?

 

[Onward Allusion]

Since my boys are only 12 and 15, I tell 'em to lock the doors if they can but also get something/anything in their hands that can be used as a weapon; paperweight, a strong pen, letter opener, stapler...etc. I have told them that hiding should be the last option and that getting out of the situation should be their first course of action if possible.

 

[Lincoln4]

Get out and run like hell. If you can't run, get "mad dog mean" and take care of business.

 

[david58]

Certainly glad one young man didn't run away.

 

[riceboy72]

Tonight, as we pulled into the mall to get a few things, my 11 year old daughter asked me about guns, and if my coworkers carried guns and liked them. The topic stemmed from me and my wife talking about the SPU shooting on the way to the mall, and how Jon Meis stood up to the shooter and fought back. This picqued her interest, and was the perfect opportunity to ask her what she would do in such a situation. Of course, the immediate thought she could relate it to was school, so I asked what she would do.

She told me that through "lockdown training" at school, they were told to get into a corner away from the doors and windows and to listen to the teacher. She also told me that the windows in the classroom were an option to get out, although I'm not sure if they actually talked about that in school or if that was her own thinking.

I told her about fighting back and she asked about the can of pepper spray she knows we keep in the kitchen drawer, especially after hearing that Meis used it on the SPU shooter. She was shown last year how to use pepper spray but didn't have much interest after that. Today, after our chat, she has renewed her interest in pepper spray and wants to keep a can with her when she goes out to ride her scooter around the neighborhood.

While the talk wasn't advanced and didn't go beyond the surface, it seemed to open the avenues of thought for her and she really is starting to understand the bad things that exist in this world. I will slowly work on her and help her develop her personal plan of action in case she's somewhere when something bad happens, but to see that she's thinking about it and has started to think of what to do makes me feel somewhat better. We have a long way to go, but it's a start in the right direction.

 

[NWGlocker]

David58-- if you are familiar with a Seattle Pacific U, can you clarify:

I read one news post (can't remember where now) that the person who pepper sprayed the gunman was reportedly trained to respond to threats and that SPU had offered such training. Does this news seem accurate?

 

[david58]

SPU does not have an armed security force. They do have uniformed security officers, and from what I have seen they are quite young, not moonlighting cops. Mostly they are there for "presence", since the school is in a major metro area - uni's help discourage assaults on the young ladies, bike thefts (a little), etc.

I am not aware of this gentleman having specific training. Carrying personal defense weapons is not allowed on campus (gun-free, including pepper spray), so I doubt that the kid was trained. Other reports I have heard indicated that he carried the pepper spray on his own ticket. I will ask my son, but I don't want to imply intimate knowledge on his part or mine.

Honestly, I doubt the school would have provided such training for a student. Think that wonderful lawyer word: LIABILITY.

I am still impressed with the reactions of the kids. I truly can't remember a situation where the shooter was stopped by the students since Kip Kinkel shot up Thurston High School in 1998, and was stopped by students there. He got 111 years in prison. Maybe if a couple more of these events were stopped in mid-stride, the shooter went to jail for a hundred years or so, and these crazies might figure out that there was no glory in being the glory hole for a fellow inmate.

My sons have been taught that giving up is no kind of life. They both (including the one that is NOT an SPU student) have great respect for Mr. Meis, and I hope that they, and I, would react in the same way in such a situation. Run to, or from, but don't cower. Our upbringing is to run to. I truly hope we never have to find out, for as Mr. Meis said, it takes a tragedy to create a hero.

 

[bikerdoc]

Post 3 sums up what I tell my grand kids. I also have taught the other tricks, some not so nice, but effective. I drill them on the strength of numbers. Pile on, and swarm, with weapons of opportunity are effective on bullies.