sacp81170a
Member
Depends on your state's laws. DUI/DWI is a criminal offense in most states, but generally you don't get into felony territory until the 3rd offense within a specified time period.
Seeking Advice on Purchase Permit Denial
- Thread starter Matthew G
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Depends on your state's laws. DUI/DWI is a criminal offense in most states, but generally you don't get into felony territory until the 3rd offense within a specified time period.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
No, it's not an alcohol crime it's a motor vehicle crime.
And alcohol is most certainlyNOT a controlled substance.
The Controlled Substance Act of 1970 lists them and specifically exempts beer, wine, spirits and tobacco.
HeavyDuty
Member
This may be your problem right here. Was the denial based on objective or subjective data?
MI residents, is there statute on permitted reasons for denial?
I'm hugely anti-drunk driving, but you did your time. If this is the only reason for the denial, I'd fight it.
HeavyDuty
Member
This may be your problem right here. Was the denial based on objective or subjective data?
MI residents, is there statute on permitted reasons for denial?
I'm hugely anti-drunk driving, but you did your time. If this is the only reason for the denial, I'd fight it.
HeavyDuty
Member
This may be your problem right here. Was the denial based on objective or subjective data?
MI residents, is there statute on permitted reasons for denial?
I'm hugely anti-drunk driving, but you did your time. If this is the only reason for the denial, I'd fight it.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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You do what you always do when fighting the man - consult a good local lawyer with experience in such matters. The lawyer will advise you of your chance of prevailing. If you like the odds vs. lawyer's fees ratio, then go forward with appeal. If not, drop it, wait the 2 years, and hope for the best.
poor_richard
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There is a problem here in Michigan with some (read several) of the police departments superseding state law in regards to pistol purchase permits. While I'm not sure about this particular case, as an example there are some PD who are requiring waiting periods, which are in clear violation of the law due to state preemption.
RobNDenver
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Matthew,
Please take this in the spirit that it is intended to achieve. You are a criminal. You have been convicted twice of drinking and driving, and have shown that over a 3 year time horizon you are incapable of being trusted behind the wheel without breaking the law. The Chief Law Enforcement Officer in your jurisdiction recognizes that you are unable to control yourself and seeks to keep you from owning a pistol, until you have proven that enough time has passed that you can be trusted again. The Six P theory suggests that your prior performance predicts your future performance. . .
So, what are you to do? Amend your behavior sufficiently that you don't get arrested and convicted of a crime again. Wait. Take the advice that you speak to the Captain or Chief LEO in your jurisdiction and thank them for whatever feedback they are willing to offer you.
Good luck.
Please take this in the spirit that it is intended to achieve. You are a criminal. You have been convicted twice of drinking and driving, and have shown that over a 3 year time horizon you are incapable of being trusted behind the wheel without breaking the law. The Chief Law Enforcement Officer in your jurisdiction recognizes that you are unable to control yourself and seeks to keep you from owning a pistol, until you have proven that enough time has passed that you can be trusted again. The Six P theory suggests that your prior performance predicts your future performance. . .
So, what are you to do? Amend your behavior sufficiently that you don't get arrested and convicted of a crime again. Wait. Take the advice that you speak to the Captain or Chief LEO in your jurisdiction and thank them for whatever feedback they are willing to offer you.
Good luck.
Thernlund
Member
RobNDenver said:
It was just a matter of time.
-T.
jrfoxx
Member
Unless it's changed since '92, you should be able to apply thru the Sheriff's office (not sure that they will somehow know about the township denial, and thus do the same based on that, or not though). I lived in Thomas Township, but got my purchase permit when I was 18 thru the Saginaw Co. Sheriff's office, not thomas Township, so it was an option at least back then.
But, as said, a lawyer's advice is probly best, as the sheriff may make the same decision regardless of if they know you were denied by shelby or not.
fspitzdorf
Member
Here is the MCL regarding requirements to receive and purchase permit
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(2s...leg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-422
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(2s...leg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-422
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Thernlund, the sad fact is that there are those in the law enforcement/criminal justice system who see ANY breaking of ANY law as criminal behavior.
That even includes traffic tickets: "You broke the law!"
It is fortunate that this general viewpoint is not common--but it does exist.
That even includes traffic tickets: "You broke the law!"
It is fortunate that this general viewpoint is not common--but it does exist.
RobNDenver
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Art,
I guess my background is showing through . . . but I don't believe that every violation of the law is equal, otherwise you would be imprisoning drivers for speeding instead of simply fining them. I do think that once one has a DUI and has experienced the costs and punishment for that criminal offense, a second offense demonstrates an alarming lack of self control. And the fact is, that in most states DUI is a criminal, not a traffic offense. Now I am not a MADD advocate, but I will say that drinking enough to get arrested and then driving is the equivalent of shooting a gun while you are under the influence. I would hate to think that anyone on this board would advocate getting a load on and taking a gun out for a little target practice.
I am glad that I don't live in a state where a law enforcement agency has to assess my good character so that I can own a pistol. But if I did live in that state I would be extra careful about getting arrested.
I guess my background is showing through . . . but I don't believe that every violation of the law is equal, otherwise you would be imprisoning drivers for speeding instead of simply fining them. I do think that once one has a DUI and has experienced the costs and punishment for that criminal offense, a second offense demonstrates an alarming lack of self control. And the fact is, that in most states DUI is a criminal, not a traffic offense. Now I am not a MADD advocate, but I will say that drinking enough to get arrested and then driving is the equivalent of shooting a gun while you are under the influence. I would hate to think that anyone on this board would advocate getting a load on and taking a gun out for a little target practice.
I am glad that I don't live in a state where a law enforcement agency has to assess my good character so that I can own a pistol. But if I did live in that state I would be extra careful about getting arrested.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Aw, I'm just commenting about that occasional soul who has an overly harsh attitude about life itsownself.
Really, a second charge on the same offense = "slow learner" at that time of one's life. However, once one's attention is had--as in the story of the mule and the 2X4--folks have been known to shape up.
And, after some period of time of a guy's demonstrating an understanding of proper self-control, I'm in favor of "full rights and privileges of an adult".
(In today's world, anybody who can walk the straight-and-narrow for five years is probably doing better than I am.)
Really, a second charge on the same offense = "slow learner" at that time of one's life. However, once one's attention is had--as in the story of the mule and the 2X4--folks have been known to shape up.
And, after some period of time of a guy's demonstrating an understanding of proper self-control, I'm in favor of "full rights and privileges of an adult".
(In today's world, anybody who can walk the straight-and-narrow for five years is probably doing better than I am.
)Yeah, I knew the "Your A Criminal Comment" post was coming. Oh well, that's what I get for posting my business in a forum. Thank you for the great advice.
As far as being a criminal....
Well, I am not. I complied with my probation, fines, classes, and 5 year license suspension.
Yes I made some VERY bad choices in my early twenties.
I could sit here and think of the would've, should've, could'ves, but the bottom line is these crimes were not felonies and nobody was injured or killed.
I look back at this time in my life with regret and thanks that nothing horribly bad happened as a result of this.
I am going to speak to a lawyer about this tomorrow. It looks like I am going to have to decide if I want to pay lawyer fees or wait the 2 years. Since none of this is hard written anywhere, who is to say what happens when I go back in 2 years. Will that be long enough?
The whole reason I posted this in the first place is to get advice (which I thank all of you for) It seems to me that my situation falls into a somewhat gray area. I am obviously upset that I got denied, but I am trying to see if I have a chance at getting this reversed.
I will post more as I find out....
Matthew
As far as being a criminal....
Well, I am not. I complied with my probation, fines, classes, and 5 year license suspension.
Yes I made some VERY bad choices in my early twenties.
I could sit here and think of the would've, should've, could'ves, but the bottom line is these crimes were not felonies and nobody was injured or killed.
I look back at this time in my life with regret and thanks that nothing horribly bad happened as a result of this.
I am going to speak to a lawyer about this tomorrow. It looks like I am going to have to decide if I want to pay lawyer fees or wait the 2 years. Since none of this is hard written anywhere, who is to say what happens when I go back in 2 years. Will that be long enough?
The whole reason I posted this in the first place is to get advice (which I thank all of you for) It seems to me that my situation falls into a somewhat gray area. I am obviously upset that I got denied, but I am trying to see if I have a chance at getting this reversed.
I will post more as I find out....
Matthew
ITS TO EASY TO GET A DUI!
oops cap lock, sorry.
I feel dui checkpoints are fascim, I drove drunk plenty of time without a problem, same with being high on weed.
If you're not hurting anyone, not crashing or etc, why cant "the system" just mind their own business?
Who died and made madd queen of the universe anyway?
oops cap lock, sorry.
I feel dui checkpoints are fascim, I drove drunk plenty of time without a problem, same with being high on weed.
If you're not hurting anyone, not crashing or etc, why cant "the system" just mind their own business?
Who died and made madd queen of the universe anyway?
MaterDei
Member
Good lord, move to a state that doesn't require you to get a license to buy a gun and then make you get a 'safety inspection'.
MaterDei
Member
I hope you're kidding.
I have a libertarian streak in me but when it comes to behavior that brings harm to others, that is where your personal freedom ends. Get drunk, high, stoned, etc. all you want. No problem with you doing that if that is what you want to do. Sit behind the wheel of a 2000+ pound automobile in an intoxicated state and all of a sudden you are endangering me and mine.
You've been lucky so far and I hope you get caught to get you off the streets.
Ivy Mike
Member
oh come on now MaterDei, we all know the stats on drunk driving are among the most overblown in the entire nation and that the laws regarding DUI are aimed at revenue generation.
If someone drives under the influence and doesn't harm anyone, whats the problem?
as far as the thread, I don't know how practical it would be but I'd love to see the OP file again for the permit and upon being declined, file a lawsuit and make the cops answer for it in court and pay a nice little judgement for infringing on the civil rights of a citizen.
If someone drives under the influence and doesn't harm anyone, whats the problem?
as far as the thread, I don't know how practical it would be but I'd love to see the OP file again for the permit and upon being declined, file a lawsuit and make the cops answer for it in court and pay a nice little judgement for infringing on the civil rights of a citizen.
Matthew,
Ask the lawyer specifically about your chances of getting a Michigan Concealed Pistol License.
If you can get a CPL, you can sidestep the "Purchase Permit" requirement. In Jan 2009, the "Safety Inspection" requirement goes away. You would still have to send in the registration paperwork to the Michigan State Police, but your local PD would be completely cut out of the process.
Things might work out in the end after all. Ask the lawyer about what I suggested and see what he says.
Ask the lawyer specifically about your chances of getting a Michigan Concealed Pistol License.
If you can get a CPL, you can sidestep the "Purchase Permit" requirement. In Jan 2009, the "Safety Inspection" requirement goes away. You would still have to send in the registration paperwork to the Michigan State Police, but your local PD would be completely cut out of the process.
Things might work out in the end after all. Ask the lawyer about what I suggested and see what he says.
Thernlund
Member
RobNDenver said:
Me said:
Art Eatman said:
That wasn't my point, Art. The OP said he deserved what he got. It feels to me like he get his act together (it was 5 years ago). It was unnecessary and unproductive to call him a criminal, but it was just a matter of time before someone did.
Some prefer to walk the High Road on stilts.
-T.
Ivy Mike
Member
another thing you might consider doing if you seek the advice of an attorney, is have that attorney file to seal or expunge your record according to state law. That may actually go faster than waiting two years for Chief Self Righteous to graciously permit you to exercise your 2nd Amendment right.
fspitzdorf
Member
You can't be serious...
unspellable
Member
DUI & Michigan
I live not far from a lab where they have a very elaborate driving simulator and do some of those tests on driving impaiment while under the influence. I think there is some room for argument about exactly where to draw the line ( 0.06, 0.07, 0.10% etc.) but it's pretty d**n clear that at some point driving constitutes reckless endangerment of the public.
I don't know about a DUI case but I do recall from the past that Michigan law required a specific waiting period of 7 or 8 years after a felony conviction before you could get a permit to purchase. This well before NICS
I live not far from a lab where they have a very elaborate driving simulator and do some of those tests on driving impaiment while under the influence. I think there is some room for argument about exactly where to draw the line ( 0.06, 0.07, 0.10% etc.) but it's pretty d**n clear that at some point driving constitutes reckless endangerment of the public.
I don't know about a DUI case but I do recall from the past that Michigan law required a specific waiting period of 7 or 8 years after a felony conviction before you could get a permit to purchase. This well before NICS
MaterDei
Member
I agree that there is a large argument to be made regarding where the BAC should lie. In fact, I'd prefer some sort of motor skills test rather than a BAC test. I imagine some people can't safely drive at .06 and other can at .15. The human body is a complicated thing and we all know that many people 'hold' their liquor better than others.
With regard to anachris, he stated that "I drove drunk plenty of time". I read that as an admission to driving while impaired. I'm willing and sad to admit that I've driven impaired as well and got away with it. Had I been busted though I would have deserved my just punishments for it.
With regard to anachris, he stated that "I drove drunk plenty of time". I read that as an admission to driving while impaired. I'm willing and sad to admit that I've driven impaired as well and got away with it. Had I been busted though I would have deserved my just punishments for it.
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