ddeanjohnson
Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2011
- Messages
- 6
I am seeking information and assistance in establishing value of an interesting revolver that I have been researching, and may end up purchasing.
A friend of mine, born in the 1920s, has owned the revolver shown in the photos below for "about 50 years." The owner doesn't have much use for computers, but with his consent I have been doing some research on this revolver, but there are still major gaps.
The revolver is a Smith & Wesson M&P Fourth Change target revolver, 6-inch, SN 2911XX. It is in excellent condition -- I would say 98 percent. It does not appear to me to have been fired much. The bore appears excellent.
There is an inscription on the right sideplate, which you should be able to see clearly one of the photos. The inscription reads as follows:
Presented by YMCA
to
Orton B. Stauffer
306th Engineers
US Pistol Team
Inter-Allied Matches
France 1919
S&W historian Roy Jinks tells me that this revolver was part of a shipment that went to the Springfield Armory in June, 1919. He said that the inscription was definitely NOT done at the S&W factory (note that the inscription is cut through the bluing, whereas S&W engraved guns and then finished them).
The historian at the Springfield Armory Museum told me that such an inscription was definitely NOT done at the Springfield Armory during that era (although some engraving was done there during the 19th century). He said that in 1919, with respect to firearms supplied under contract from private companies such as S&W, the Armory merely served as a way station for firearms on their way to their final destination.
I also confirmed, from documents available on the internet, the following information: First Lt. Orton B. Stauffer of the 306th Engineers won a silver medal in pistol competition at the Allied Expeditionary Force (A.E.F.) match in France in May, 1917. It appears that many of the American service members who did well at that event were placed on an American team to participate in a much bigger international event, the Inter-Allied Games, which was organized by General Pershing in collaboration with the YMCA, which was held June 22-July 5, 1919, at "Pershing Stadium" -- constructed especially for the event -- in Paris. At that time, it appears, the YMCA was big into supporting shooting, at least military shooting (how times have changed). It is therefore very plausible that the YMCA presented the U.S. team members with revolvers for use in the Inter-Allied Games.
I confirmed that Lt. Stauffer was on the U.S. team at the Inter-Allied Games. I didn't find evidence that he won any individual medal there, but the U.S. team apparently did very well, winning what has become known as the "Pershing Trophy," which since then has been presented to the annual winner of a military rifle competition called the National Trophy Team Matches.
I also found documentation that Stauffer remained in the Army at least as late as 1935, at which time he was a captain supervising Civilian Conservation Corps camps. My amateur investigations found no evidence that he ever made any mark in the world of competitive shooting subsequent to the 1919 Inter-Allied Games, but I'm sure my research on this point was far from comprehensive.
I found a Springfield Armory Museum page that contains interesting information about a special order by the Army of a later shipment of 50 M&P revolvers (serial range 386XXX), for the 1920 Olympic games. The revolvers, as described, were similar to the revolver that I am researching. This page quotes Captain Oliver F. Snyder, Ordnance Department, as saying, "This was the revolver used by the A.E.F. Pistol Team last year, and it has fully demonstrated its superiority over all existing models." The page is here: Springfield Armory Museum - Collection Record,
(Note, however, that Stauffer was NOT on the Olympic team, as far as I can tell.)
I found an old thread on "The High Road," in which "Jim K" listed various groups of unusual M&Ps, including: "291000 range 1919 (Army for A.E.F. 50 guns for inter-allied pistol competition)." I don't know who "Jim K" is and I have not yet attempted to contact him to ask the source of this information, but it is consistent with the inscription on the revolver.
That about exhausts the information that I've gathered on this revolver so far. At this point, the biggest single question in my mind is about the inscription itself. I am wondering if the entire batch of revolvers was inscribed for the team members in the same fashion, presumably at the request of the YMCA, and if so, who did the inscription? In the alternative, it is possible that Lt. Stauffer himself hired a jeweler or someone else to inscribe this one particular gun, or that somebody else did so before the gun was given to him, or even years later. I would be very interested in hearing from any collector who has another revolver from this batch, or from anyone who might recognize the inscription "style" as indicating a certain origin.
Any other suggestions for reconstructing the history of this revolver would also be appreciated, and establishing its current value, would be much appreciated. Please feel free to submit comments or questions by email if you prefer.
(Note: I apologize that I did not notice and remove the pistol-rug fuzz in the chambers before I took the photo below.)
Douglas Johnson
Smith & Wesson Collectors Association No. 2404
A friend of mine, born in the 1920s, has owned the revolver shown in the photos below for "about 50 years." The owner doesn't have much use for computers, but with his consent I have been doing some research on this revolver, but there are still major gaps.
The revolver is a Smith & Wesson M&P Fourth Change target revolver, 6-inch, SN 2911XX. It is in excellent condition -- I would say 98 percent. It does not appear to me to have been fired much. The bore appears excellent.
There is an inscription on the right sideplate, which you should be able to see clearly one of the photos. The inscription reads as follows:
Presented by YMCA
to
Orton B. Stauffer
306th Engineers
US Pistol Team
Inter-Allied Matches
France 1919
S&W historian Roy Jinks tells me that this revolver was part of a shipment that went to the Springfield Armory in June, 1919. He said that the inscription was definitely NOT done at the S&W factory (note that the inscription is cut through the bluing, whereas S&W engraved guns and then finished them).
The historian at the Springfield Armory Museum told me that such an inscription was definitely NOT done at the Springfield Armory during that era (although some engraving was done there during the 19th century). He said that in 1919, with respect to firearms supplied under contract from private companies such as S&W, the Armory merely served as a way station for firearms on their way to their final destination.
I also confirmed, from documents available on the internet, the following information: First Lt. Orton B. Stauffer of the 306th Engineers won a silver medal in pistol competition at the Allied Expeditionary Force (A.E.F.) match in France in May, 1917. It appears that many of the American service members who did well at that event were placed on an American team to participate in a much bigger international event, the Inter-Allied Games, which was organized by General Pershing in collaboration with the YMCA, which was held June 22-July 5, 1919, at "Pershing Stadium" -- constructed especially for the event -- in Paris. At that time, it appears, the YMCA was big into supporting shooting, at least military shooting (how times have changed). It is therefore very plausible that the YMCA presented the U.S. team members with revolvers for use in the Inter-Allied Games.
I confirmed that Lt. Stauffer was on the U.S. team at the Inter-Allied Games. I didn't find evidence that he won any individual medal there, but the U.S. team apparently did very well, winning what has become known as the "Pershing Trophy," which since then has been presented to the annual winner of a military rifle competition called the National Trophy Team Matches.
I also found documentation that Stauffer remained in the Army at least as late as 1935, at which time he was a captain supervising Civilian Conservation Corps camps. My amateur investigations found no evidence that he ever made any mark in the world of competitive shooting subsequent to the 1919 Inter-Allied Games, but I'm sure my research on this point was far from comprehensive.
I found a Springfield Armory Museum page that contains interesting information about a special order by the Army of a later shipment of 50 M&P revolvers (serial range 386XXX), for the 1920 Olympic games. The revolvers, as described, were similar to the revolver that I am researching. This page quotes Captain Oliver F. Snyder, Ordnance Department, as saying, "This was the revolver used by the A.E.F. Pistol Team last year, and it has fully demonstrated its superiority over all existing models." The page is here: Springfield Armory Museum - Collection Record,
(Note, however, that Stauffer was NOT on the Olympic team, as far as I can tell.)
I found an old thread on "The High Road," in which "Jim K" listed various groups of unusual M&Ps, including: "291000 range 1919 (Army for A.E.F. 50 guns for inter-allied pistol competition)." I don't know who "Jim K" is and I have not yet attempted to contact him to ask the source of this information, but it is consistent with the inscription on the revolver.
That about exhausts the information that I've gathered on this revolver so far. At this point, the biggest single question in my mind is about the inscription itself. I am wondering if the entire batch of revolvers was inscribed for the team members in the same fashion, presumably at the request of the YMCA, and if so, who did the inscription? In the alternative, it is possible that Lt. Stauffer himself hired a jeweler or someone else to inscribe this one particular gun, or that somebody else did so before the gun was given to him, or even years later. I would be very interested in hearing from any collector who has another revolver from this batch, or from anyone who might recognize the inscription "style" as indicating a certain origin.
Any other suggestions for reconstructing the history of this revolver would also be appreciated, and establishing its current value, would be much appreciated. Please feel free to submit comments or questions by email if you prefer.
(Note: I apologize that I did not notice and remove the pistol-rug fuzz in the chambers before I took the photo below.)
Douglas Johnson
Smith & Wesson Collectors Association No. 2404
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You shall have what you want and more.
) would seem to combine to make it valuable.
