Self Defense in School Lockdowns

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azredhawk44

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In light of the Virginia situation, I thought maybe we could spend some brain cells while coming up with suggestions that might save lives in the future?

I was sitting here thinking: What could I do if I were in a lockdown with a live shooter somewhere in the same building?

I came up with:
1) Shoelaces
2) Big, heavy textbooks.

Loop the shoelaces around your neck and suspend the largest textbook you can find over the binding. Improvised body armor, which could stop or at least deplete energy from, most lighter powered automatic handgun rounds up through 45acp.

This, along with situational awareness, might help someone escape from a building.

What else, guys?
 
Are you bizarre?

I came up with:
1) Shoelaces
2) Big, heavy textbooks.

Loop the shoelaces around your neck and suspend the largest textbook you can find over the binding. Improvised body armor, which could stop or at least deplete energy from, most lighter powered automatic handgun rounds up through 45acp.

Are you bizarre?
That is the most unintelligent thing I have ever heard.
 
It's not too far from what some schools have told their students: Use your backpack full of textbooks to provide cover as you run away.

I agree it's stupid. But what realistic alternatives do most schools have?
 
What more can you do?

Come up with something better then.

Given you are a typical college student with reasonable resources in a classroom, what can you do to get to safety?
 
What more can you do?

Come up with something better then.

Given you are a typical college student with reasonable resources in a classroom, what can you do to get to safety?

#1 break out a window and run

#2 if no windows, lock doors and have students push up against door so it can not be opened. Almost all college classroom/dorm doors I ever saw were THICK wood or steel.

#3 if you are in the hall/room where the shooter is shooting, take cover or attack him

I would like to see CCW be a federal mandated right in college. I will be working on my MBA in the next couple years, would like to carry a gun while there. I will at least have a knife on me.
 
What more can you do?

Come up with something better then.

Given you are a typical college student with reasonable resources in a classroom, what can you do to get to safety?

Let's see, leave the shoelaces in the shoes so that you have proper footwear and then leave the books in the book bags or backpacks and carry them.

Why would you intentionally handicap your mobility by disassembling your footwear and then try to use said shoestrings to try to create a method to carry books for defense when most students already have packs or book bags in which they carry books already.

Sorry, but that is a nobrainer. You have attempted to take an obvious set of choices and made them overly complicated in a manner that is less productive.
 
my mind used to wander to this subject when I was sitting in those cramped classrooms.

Your best tactical defense is the exact opposite... play dead. If you're in a classroom (auditorium or with desks) just fall as soon as bullets start flying. You can not intelligently defend yourself against this threat. All of the stories I've heard they spray towards the masses as they run as their are more targets. I've never heard of them double-tapping anyone on the ground.

Strapping textbooks to yourself? actually, that's really stupid... but it may get the job done. If you're going to retaliate and try to be a hero, that's a good way to go...but I'm more inclined to chuck a desk at the attacker. There's something about a 40 lb mass of steel/wood that would make a guy think for a second. Start chucking textbooks, maybe someone else would join in...i dunno. The virginia attack was supposedly two glock 9mm's. a desktop or chair would stop those rounds...as would a thick textbook. Your best bet is to get out of sight and stay out of sight unless you get a very clear shot at the guy. Until then, improvise anything you can...golf club, free weights, skillet? Anything with mass if you don't have a gun.

Don't jump out the window unless you're on the first floor and you are not in the line of fire of the gunman. They will shoot at those escaping first out of reaction. You can't save everyone, but you can save yourself. You have to contemplate the scenario before it happens, then follow your plan. You should always have an escape strategy, and for God sake, never put your back to a window.

If you know there's a situation and you have a few minutes, remove an exterior door (usually about 4 screws per hinge, 3 hinges per door) at 36" wide and 72" or more high, it makes one hell of a body shield. Try to get in a position where you can charge the attacker and land on top of him with the shield. his armspan will allow him to take unaimed shots around the door toward you, keep an eye out for his protruding hands and pistol. Hold his hands down and keep them there until help arrives, don't worry about removing the gun at this point, just keep him neutral until you can get help.

Have your help remove the weapons from his hands and pin his wrists to the ground by standing on them. Then, remove the door and proceed to whoop his ass with it. Nothing tells a guy you're fed up like a 3 foot by 7 foot door up the ass.
 
Don't believe the books-as-cover lie

I recall shooting a 124gr Rem Golden Saber +P into an old Algebra book (~1.5" thick) from a Glock 19. Not only did the bullet have enough velocity to exit the back of the book, it expanded in the berm behind the book as if it had passed through a 'heavy denim test' (later confirmed in gelatin, years later).
 
Concealed carry or at least having a decent knife would help the most but unfortunately those were not allowed today:fire:
 
Well if I couldn't get out for whatever reason... most schools have rooms that have the light wooden tiles in the ceilings which you could lift up and get up there. Not much you could do.:confused:
 
I think you need to put something behind the books to simulate a human body or else it won't work. It's much like body armor. Wearing the backpack either infront or on your back would be one thing. Last I heard you can still have pocket knives. Something clever with a knife and a meter ruler? Like a spear? I dunno...sounds like you're a fish in a barrel.
 
If the BG wasn't in the same room as me I would try to listen to where the shots were being fired and then haul ass the other way. If he were right next door and coming my way, I'd either take my chances and jump out a window if 2 stories or less and if I couldn't do that I would barricade the door as best as possible.
If I am in the room and he starts shooting, wow, you really have to think that one through. On one side you and a couple others could try and be heroes and take him down before he was able to kill others and on the other side you could play dead.
If you are in the chemistry lab then you could possibly make a firebomb to throw at him, but not sure.
 
In that kind of situation, you're effed. Firebombs? Textbooks? Ruler spears? Not trying to be a jerk but those ideas are laughable. I'm not advocating laying down and dying but unless you're prepared to ambush him in the classroom's doorway and probably get yourself (and others) corpsified in the process, you're out of options.

Oh and nobody I ever met in college carried their textbooks around with them after the first week of freshman year.
 
I actually thought about this a lot while in college. Here are some things I came up with.

1) run like hell if you can get away.
2)If i am in a classroom and he is in the hall way, try to stand along the wall next to the door way. he is likely to stand in the doorway and shoot into the room. If he does so, he will be going for people in clear sight. If I am off to the side of the door, i am safest. If he does enter the room, assuming he is not well trained in room clearing technique, he will lead with the gun, and i may be able to get the drop on him from the side.
5)get everyone in the room to barracade the door with desks/chairs/books, and anything else before the bastard can get in.
4) sneak up from behind, and stab in the neck with something like a pencil or pen. It's nasty and sneaky, but chances are, that it is so loud, that he would hear me coming, and who knows.
5) rush with a group.

None of them are perfect, and each is very situationally dependant. Of course I would have to improvise as well as possible, but these are just some thoughts.
 
The VT tragedy has been a wake-up call for me, being a university student. For a long time I've planned on getting a small pistol or revolver to keep in one of my boots. As soon as I can save the money, I'm going to do just that. My life and life and the lives of my classmates is more important than any idiotic law!
 
6_gunner: good idea to do that. Bad idea to post it on a public website.
If you are carrying legally, it's fine and legal to discuss.
When breaking the rules it's best to keep it to yourself.
 
This is more aggressive/distractive, but might work to give you enough time to get away.

Fire extinguisher (throw or deploy into face)
Fire hose (spray)
Pull the fire alarm
Chemicals in janitorial closets - usu. one on each floor
 
Good ideas, Pixel! If possible I think it best for everyone to scatter in as many different directions as possible: distance and angles. Several students did jump out 2-4 story windows and lived to tell about it. If not then you have to get serious about mounting an aggressive offense.

- More the merrier. Enlist as many counter-attackers as possible and form a hasty ambush as best you can.

- Pixel has good ideas for improvised weapons. Heavy fire extinguishers for blunt force plus spraying/fogging. Chemicals. Fire hose and brass fittings. Anything is better than nothing, but ultimately it will take a couple of guys getting to the perp to tackle him and thump him into submission. Surely there are a few folding knives in ever class?

The absolute worst thing to do is exactly what the lock down rules state: huddle in the middle of the room and wait to be executed en mass.
 
Surely there are a few folding knives in ever class?

My viewpoint may be skewed by the fact that I am a recent grad of a VERY liberal school in Boston, but i think that may be a woefully overly ambitious assumption. I always had one (if not an actual dagger of some kind). but depending on class size, i'd bet i was the only one most of the time.
 
Well if I heard gunfire outside of the classroom, my plan has always been: get to the door asap with my knife and wait for the SOB to try opening it. If I was in the first classroom to be shot at? Hide behind the other kid cause I'm screwed. Thankfully I have only one class left before graduation and I'll be done in May. Unfortunately, I'll be going to graduate school in New York :uhoh: so I uhh....will be even more disarmed there.

Now if only universities would pull their heads out of the ***** and allow us to carry on campus. Otherwise the nearest pistol to me is a short mile jog to my car.
 
kellyj00 said: I've never heard of them double-tapping anyone on the ground.

Those young murderers at Columbine High School did exactly that. In fact, they killed a lot of people cowering on the floor of the library, a few of them already having been shot once before.


I always carried a gun my six years at college, and that wasn't very long ago. I simply disregarded school policy; the worst penalty was civil - expulsion. But then again I've been known to disregard bad policy when it goes contrary to good moral sense and subverts my best interests in the past.

I guess I'll do whatever must be done and take my chances that good medical care might save me afterwards. People are dying and I'm probably on the list once he gets around to me, so how worse can it get?
 
I can't really argue with anyone except azredhawk - 9mm goes right through that stuff, and our shooter du jour was taking headshots anyway. I'll just add this: bullets suck at penetrating cinderblock, so get some between you and the shooter. It's also handy to have a gun anyway, esp. in a dorm situation. If I had shot the shooter and gotten expelled for my troubles, I'd consider the cost cheap as hell.
 
What more can you do>??

Concealed means concealed! F-them and their stupid policies. I always carried illegally at UT. YOU are responsible for your own LIFE.
 
I recall shooting a 124gr Rem Golden Saber +P into an old Algebra book (~1.5" thick) from a Glock 19. Not only did the bullet have enough velocity to exit the back of the book, it expanded in the berm behind the book as if it had passed through a 'heavy denim test' (later confirmed in gelatin, years later).

Somehow I doubt the round expanded in the berm, but instead in impacting the book.

Yes, a 1.5" book isn't going to stop most bullets, but it will bleed off more of the energy which will reduce the damage potential downrange from the book.

You work with what you have at the time. A 1.5" book barrier is better than no barrier, albeit far from ideal defense.

Good ideas, Pixel! If possible I think it best for everyone to scatter in as many different directions as possible: distance and angles.

Yes, scattering is a way to break up target density, but how do you make this happen in a controlled manner such that all the potential targets know what to do? That is the problem with high stress and panic-laden situations.

Personally, from the limited video footage I have seen for school defenses in classrooms, I think may folks would be well served by using whatever is on hand as thrown projectiles. It is a barrage tactic that is meant to limit, frustrate, and hopefully stop an attack. It is a pro-active opportunistic tactic. Once again, the problem is getting folks in a high stress panic-laden situation to behave in the manner necessary to effect the tactic.

So far what is turning up is that very few folks mounted any sort of active defense other that flight. The only one I have heard of is blocking the door of a room the shooter left and then tried to re-enter. The tactic was sufficient enough that the frustrated shooter fired into the door without students being hit and he broke off the attack at that room. It was a pro-active defense that precluded further injury in that room.

CCW is a great answer and I don't deny it, but folks really need to realize that they have a lot of options available to them to use as weapons even if they don't have guns. In many of the previous mass attacks that have been as short ranges such as this, such as Luby's in Temple, people simply hid behind furniture or took flight. Few tried to fight and those that did were shot (tried charging the shooter), but they had ceramic plates, knives, forks, glasses, salt, salt and pepper shakers, etc. that all would have been handy thrown projectiles, but they were not used as such.

If you don't want to use a 1.5" algebra book for cover, then by golly use it as a projectile. A class of 20 kids likely means at least 20 projectile books.
 
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