Jeremiah10:23
Member
I am looking to sell a pistol soon and I would like to know how to go about it. I know if it goes out of state I need to go through an FFL but wha happens once I take it to him?
Selling a gun
- Thread starter Jeremiah10:23
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NavyLCDR
member
Assuming you mean take it to the FFL? You take the money for the gun from the buyer, the FFL accepts the gun, logs it into his bound book with your name and adress recording who he received it from. That's it. Your part of the deal is done.
Or, if you mean take it to an FFL in your state, after you receive the money for the gun from the buyer, you will take the gun to the FFL in your state....they will record your information and will mail the gun to an FFL in the buyer's state for transfer to the buyer.
Then the FFL has the buyer complete a form 4473 and any other requirements specified in their state law. Does the required background check. If everything passes, the buyer receives his gun from the FFL. If something does not pass, then the disposition of the gun needs to be worked out between the buyer and the FFL.
NavyLCDR
member
And if the buyer is not a resident of the same state as the seller, two Federal felonies are committed, one by the seller, and one by the buyer when they take the gun back to their home state.
Jeremiah10:23
Member
I have a gentleman interested in my pistol but he is asking for the serial number, should I give it to him or are there concerns about doing so?
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
That's controvercial. Most likely he's got a pal at the local PD who will "run the number" for him and tell him if that gun has ever been entered in the NCIC stolen guns database. He's trying to protect himself from buying a "hot" gun.
Or, he might be a collector looking to verify year of manufacture based on the number.
Personally, I don't see much harm in telling him. Some will say he could then claim the gun is his and report the serial number stolen, but I don't see how this could ever work in his favor, and he'd be in serious hot water when that plan blew up in his face.
Or, he might be a collector looking to verify year of manufacture based on the number.
Personally, I don't see much harm in telling him. Some will say he could then claim the gun is his and report the serial number stolen, but I don't see how this could ever work in his favor, and he'd be in serious hot water when that plan blew up in his face.
tyeo098
Member
Just give him all but the last 2.
Enough to determine date of mfg but not enough to devise a devious scheme.
Wouldn't his police 'buddy' be violating some kind of law by running a number not in evidence or something?
One would assume that system would be 'for official use only.'
Enough to determine date of mfg but not enough to devise a devious scheme.
Wouldn't his police 'buddy' be violating some kind of law by running a number not in evidence or something?
One would assume that system would be 'for official use only.'
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
It's pretty hotly debated. Yes, the system (at least the NCIC, there are also state systems sometimes) is supposed to be for "official" uses only, and some officers have said they'd have their access ability recinded if they were caught running numbers on guns they didn't have in their own custody under an official investigation.
However, many, many, many other folks (and other officers) have stated that they do this all the time in thier town or city and it's no big deal at all.
In Texas it's as easy as swapping money for item. Just ask if he's a felon and a resident of the state. If he says no to the felony and yes to residency, you as the seller have done your "legal duty". If he lied to you, it's on him. Any type of FTC transactions I do I at least have the guys phone number and email address.
bikemutt
Member
If you sell it privately, consider asking for a concealed carry permit or some similar document that tells you the buyer is unlikely to be a prohibited person.
It's probably worthwhile to note that being a felon is only one of the reasons a person may be prohibited.
It's probably worthwhile to note that being a felon is only one of the reasons a person may be prohibited.
hermannr
Member
Bikemutt: Quit buying into the anti's garbage.
In WA, what is required is the person not be prohibited, and that he resides in WA. Simple question will cover it. If you ask "are you a prohibited person and do you reside in the state of WA?" If the affirm they are a resident and not a prohibited person, that is all that is necessary.
There are about 360,000 CPL's in WA. There are over 6,000,000 residents of WA. So you are assuming the other 5,640,000 people are felons Eh? Kind of redicules don't you think?
In WA, what is required is the person not be prohibited, and that he resides in WA. Simple question will cover it. If you ask "are you a prohibited person and do you reside in the state of WA?" If the affirm they are a resident and not a prohibited person, that is all that is necessary.
There are about 360,000 CPL's in WA. There are over 6,000,000 residents of WA. So you are assuming the other 5,640,000 people are felons Eh? Kind of redicules don't you think?
Jorg Nysgerrig
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I know it's a bit early in the morning for logic, but just because someone assumes that the someone with a CPL probably isn't a felon doesn't mean they automatically assume that everyone without a CPL probably is a felon.
bikemutt
Member
I'm not buying into anyone's garbage, neither do I assume someone without a carry permit is a felon.
Unless the buyer is known to me personally, it's my choice to sell a firearm only if they have a concealed pistol license, LE credentials or something else that indicates to me they have passed a background check. It's my freedom to lose, if a buyer doesn't like my rules they can go buy the gun from a dealer or someone else.
NavyLCDR
member
CPL doesn't PROVE anything about the buyer, unless you verify with the Department of Licensing that it is still valid. They could have become a prohibited person since their CPL was issued. I have enough disdain for police officers who feel the need to demand, "You papers, please" to indicate a person is innocent when they are only engaging in a legal activity, I won't turn around and do the same thing myself, but it is your right to do so.
bikemutt
Member
I never said it proved anything, I said it's an indication to me the person passed a background check. Could they have become prohibited since passing the background check? Sure. If I ask a person if they are a felon and they say no, could they have lied? Sure. You are free to believe both methods are equally close to the truth, and I'm free not to.
NavyLCDR
member
This is my feeling on the subject. I don't like having to prove to the government my innocence in order to carry a gun. I think it infringes upon the 2nd Amendment. So, I won't ask for government documentation to determine the innocence of the person I am selling the gun to. I follow the law and nothing more. If I have no reason to suspect they are not a resident of the same state I am and have no reason to suspect they are prohibited, I will sell them the gun.
hermannr
Member
I lived at a time when anyone could purchase anything they wanted (Pre-GCA68) and it never was a problem. There were no FFL's, there were no "prohibited persons", none of that "infringement" on the rights of any person to their own personal self defense. Guess what? There were less problems then with the misuse of a firearm, then there are now.
Anyone that thinks by requiring a CPL to sell a firearm to anyone is 100% into the anti's garbage...I absolutely refuse to not trust my fellow citizen. I will ask, but I believe in "innocent until proven guilty",,,,NOT "guilty until proven innocent".
How many of you would complain if the police saw you walking down the street (doing nothing out of the ordinary) and came over to you and asked for "your papers please?"
A simple question relieves you for liability if you are worried. The LAW says "knowingly" you ask, they lie? Well you can see a CPL, and it may still be a fake.
tyeo098
Member
I don't require it, but its a handy way for determinig anti-felon status. That or voters reg. I dont require a bill of sale, in fact, I despise them. All the people I deal with seem to be happy to show me their DL (SHOW, not PHOTOCOPY) to verify +18 status, even if they are middle aged. Maybe it makes them feel young. Iunno. Also helps to determine if they are a VA resident or not.
What? Thats kind of a stretch. There's no possibilty of committing a crime by walking down the street. If OC is illegal unless you have a CHP, that will give the 5-0 a reason to stop you and ask 'papers please' since there is a possibilty you are committing a crime. If OC is legal withOUT a permit, tell them to pound sand.
Its a lot easier to lie and say no then it is to fake a CHP (unless youre in VA, they crap they give us probably makes it EASIER to fake than lying...)
How do they know that you're not an escaped prisoner unless they take you in, check your ID, and run your fingerprints and DNA?
There are many other possible crimes.
1) You might be a convicted felon or illegal drug user (the possession and carrying would be crimes). 2) You might have stolen the firearm. 3) Your firearm might have been used in a murder. These would be possible crimes even if open carry is legal without a permit. How will they know unless they check?
There is criminal possibility no matter where you are or what you are doing. Should they always be checking?
tyeo098
Member
Like I said,
Go to youtube, there are plenty of videos of cops harrassing OC'ers, none of them asking paper please for someone walking down the street. (unless youre brown in AZ...)
The point is that the rationale is the same. The only difference is the firearm. You are required to have a license to drive a car. The police do not pull over people for open driving to make sure that you have a license.
Innocent until proven guilty (unless a firearm is involved).
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
More than enuf. OP's been answered.
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