Sellior & Bellot .303 British and 7.62x54 brass

[goon]

Has anyone tried reloading Sellior & Bellot brass for these two rounds? I would like to build up a small supply of reloadable brass for both before I invest in reloading components for them. I have noticed that the S&B 9mm brass I have was a pain to reprime, but I think overall that I could probably clean the primer pockets up a little and it would be OK. That wouldn't be too big of a deal with only 100 or so cases, so maybe it would be worth it.
Also, other than S&B, where else can I get 7.62x54R reloadable (boxer primed) casings?

 

[noonanda]

I have reloaded it for both. The 303 brit brass though has a tendency to have case head separations after only a few reloadings(have had it happen in 2 different guns that both have good headspacing).
I didnt even know it happened till I fired a round and when I ejected it only half of it came out of the chamber, no gas leakage. I have reloaded 7.62x54 S&B and winchester (made by S&B) multiple times with no problems though. YMMV

 

[Okiecruffler]

I've reloaded both with S&B and the only complaint I have is it's abit harder to resize and deprime. Case life has been okay, but I'm loading pretty light.

 

[Sunray]

Contact these guys. http://www.ammoman.com/webstore_762x54R.htm
Or. http://www.grafs.com/bulkByBagQty.cfm/startItem/1

 

[Johnny Guest]

goon, I have zero experience in loading 7.62x54, so I don't know what's usual.

I've loaded a fair amount of .303 Brit, though - -

First: The S&B cases I got seemed to have some AWFULLY tight primer pockets. Now, I just do a couple of turns with a primer pocket reamer, or process all of them with the RCBS primer pocket swadge, the same one I got to process military .45 ACP brass.


As to the case head separations mentioned by noonanda, this is typical of any brand of .303 brass fired through any of the British military Enfields. They purposely started cutting the chambers oversize to ensure function under harsh field conditions - - I believe it began in World War I.

If you compare an unfired, factory-loaded cartridge with a fired case, you'll notice that the shoulder of the fired case has been set well forward in firing. If you full-length resize, you should limit yourself to a single full power reloading. You MIGHT get away with two or three loadings, but, if you check for the "bright ring," or use the bent wire check, you'll detect incipient separation.

If you shoot your reloads in only one rifle, you might want to get a Redding neck sizing die, and set it so it doesn't move the shoulder back to factory measurements.

Best,
Johnny

 

[goon]

I did know that about the Lee Enfield chambers being bored loose, and about the shoulder being blown forward. Something else that I learned about them in my youth is that the rifling changes depth halfway through. It starts out more shallow to allow the bullet to gain more velocity.
The case separation issue is pretty much what has kept me from reloading for it up til now. The gun in question, a Lithgow SMLE, really is a great shooter. It has put three Winchester 150gr PSP's in a dime sized group at 100 yards several times. I would shoot it more if I could afford it.
How many loadings do you get with only neck sizing the brass? I will be shooting the handloads only in this rifle, so your suggestion should work.
If I am gonna buy dies anyway, I might as well start out with neck sizing dies and just be good to go from the start.
Thanks.


Also, will the bullets (not loaded rounds) for the .303 and '54R interchange. They both have almost the same bore size (.311), right? So I should be able to use the same components for both, right?
Thanks.

 

[noonanda]

I use the same bullets for .303 and 7.62X54R, but the biggest thing is you need to slug your bore to determine bore size for your rifles to select the best bullet. some russian or british rifles bores are oversized from use ie the bore would slug .312 or .313. I have gotten lucky and been able to use .311 bullets in both of these calibers as well as 7.7 japanese. You could always load acouple .310 (sks/ak size) .311(remington 180 gr) or .312(hornady) sized bullets for both and see which one your rifles like the best. If it is shooting the winchester PSP's good, it sound like it is a .311 bore, you may want to stick with them.

The case head seperation issue I mentioned, I have only had that happen with the S&B brass. I have had no problem with the Federal, remington or winchester brass. I have gotten many reloads out of these cases, I think the brass is stronger than the S&B, But I am also not shooting max loads, a mid-range load will extend the life of the brass.

 

[Johnny Guest]

How many loadings do you get with only neck sizing the brass?

Wish I could give you a good answer, goon. I only recently began doing the neck size only thing.

I freely admit that I'm going by what I've read in the writings of Ken Waters, Ross Seyfreid, and others. Some things you take on faith, some on logic, and some as a combination. First, I pretty much trust what those two guys say. Second, it only makes sense: The less you work the brass, the longer it will last, especially given moderate ressure loads.

Someone (RCBS?) would probably fill a special order for a two die set of .303 dies, with neck sizer instead of FL size die. I'd suggect, though, that you get the normal set, PLUS the neck sizer. That way, you'll be set if in the future you obtain a second (or more ) .303 rifle.

All best,
Johnny

 

[goon]

OK guys, next question.
Is 7.62x53 the same as 7.62x54? I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Finns called it that instead, but I can't remember for sure. I only ask because I have been looking at just maybe buying brass and bullets instead of loaded rounds to start with. It depends on how cheap I can find the brass really more than anything else.
Also, my Mosin Nagant is a B Barrel Finn M-39, my baby. The thing is beautiful and is certainly my favorite rifle. It is deadly accurate with cheap Wolf 148 grain so I am thinking it could only get better with handloads. Historically, my handloads have ranged from at least as good to way better than factory ammo, so why not try this one too?
Guess I will have to take it to a smith to have the bore slugged, but does anyone know what the usual bore on these is off the top of his or her head?

On the .303, I think I might just do that with RCBS. IIRC, they will make custom dies for people so getting a set of 303 dies like you describe shouldn't be too big of a problem. I looked through my stock a couple days ago and I only have 40 cases and a box of loaded ammo. I thought I had shot it a little more than that, but I guess not. It really doesn't get shot much, which is a shame because it is a shooter. I am going to use it for deer this year, mostly because it is what I have. The handloading will have to wait until I see if the interview I went to today pans out.
Thanks for the help guys.

 

[noonanda]

Is 7.62x53 the same as 7.62x54

Yes it is, the Finnish call it that because the case is 53.5 in length, they rounded down, the Russians rounded up.

Also, my Mosin Nagant is a B Barrel Finn M-39, my baby. The thing is beautiful and is certainly my favorite rifle. It is deadly accurate with cheap Wolf 148 grain so I am thinking it could only get better with handloads. Historically, my handloads have ranged from at least as good to way better than factory ammo, so why not try this one too?

The Finnish M-39 B barrel has a nominal bore of .310. So you could used .311 sized bullets no problem, the B barrel has to do with the rifle being compatable with standard Russian issue ammo.
As for slugging your bore, you can do this yourself. Take a shotgun shell with 00 buckshot, insert it into chamber. Then using a wooden dowel long enough to push it the length of your barrel, and a rubber mallet. use the mallet to tap the dowel and drive the shot from the breach and out the muzzle, then measure the lands and grooves with a pair of calipers to determine your average bore size. I have a M-39 and M-38 that love .308 size bullets, and a M-44 that will only eat .310 or .311 sized bullets. I think the wolf bullets are .311. I agree that you will get the greatest accuracy from handloads.

Lee also make a necksizing only die for either .303 british or 7.62X54R, and their dies are cheaper. I have and use a hand-held lee loader to necksize brass, and a regular FL sizing die for these calibers. I mostly use the FL sizing die, but I have adjusted so that it just barely taps the shoulder on the brass.

 

[goon]

So what would the general bore diameter on a non B barrel M-39 most likely be?
I do have some 00 Buck around as well as a set of calipers, so I might have to get at it and try slugging the bore on my own.
Thanks.

 

[noonanda]

I think the land diameter will be right around .308-.309 and the grooves diameter should be .310-.311. It might be greater due to use of the rifle. Measure your lands diameter and your grooves diameter. If yout lands are right around .308 you may want to try shooting some .308 bullets in handloads and see how she likes em

 

[goon]

Noonanda - I think that may be workable with my M-39. It is unissued, and the bore is tight. I tried the "shot out bore" test and it seems tight enough to work with a .308 bullet. But you are right, it would need to be slugged to be sure.
Thanks for all the help.
Now I know what to ask Santa Claus for (7.62x54 casings and dies).

 

[noonanda]

I really like reloading for my mosins, This cartridge imho is right between .308 and .30-06 power wise, and can get close to .30-06 velocitys with the right load. If you ever need any advise on this one, give me a holler, I'll try to help you with what I know

 

[goon]

I appreciate the Mosin Nagant as well, especially m M-39. It is perfectly balanced for me, deadly accurate (with me shooting it this is a real accomplishment), and powerful, and the recoil is soft so I can shoot it all day with no discomfort.
Reloading for it will make it even greater.
Some guys can go their whole lives and never find that "one rifle". I just got lucky with this one.

What manual do you use to get your reloading info? I have loaded for .308 and 300 Savage quite a bit before so I do know what I am doing (I hope ). What kind of powder do you use? Will something like Win 748 work? I already have about two and a half pounds of it and I would like to be able to share as many components between the rounds that I reload for as I can. I like it simple.
Thanks.

 

[noonanda]

I use hornady, and lee manuals, plus I bought a 7.62x54R load all manual that has excerpts from hornady, sierra, speer and the different powder companies. I'd have to look on win 748, I know I have used win 760 in mosins but I didnt like it, seemed to leave alot of carbon. I would recommend buying a hornady manual, they cover almost all of the old milsurp calibers.
I'll post the listed loads for 748 if there are any.

 

[noonanda]

Found Win 748 Data only in Lee manual

these loads are out of my Lee "modern reloading handbook. It lists the bullets used as .310, If you used .308 your pressure will be lower.

110 gr Jacketed
Win 748 Start: 46.1 Never Exceed 50.5
velocity FPS 3164

125 Gr Jacketed
Win 748 Start: 42.9 Never Exceed 47.8
velocity FPS 2968

150 Gr Jacketed
Win 748 Start: 40.7 Never Exceed 45.5
velocity FPS 2724

180 Gr Jacketed
Win 748 Start: 37.6 Never Exceed 41.4
velocity FPS 2410

200 Gr Jacketed
Win 748 Start: 35.5 Never Exceed 39.5
velocity FPS 2276

these are the only loads I've found, I hope it gives you a starting point for this powder. It may actually be too fast of a powder but I dont know. Just be careful.

 

[goon]

Thanks.