semi 44 mag carbines -- any other than Ruger?

[Kaylee]

I know Ruger has done a couple semi -auto 44 mag carbines.. one kinda like the Minis and one kinda like the 10/22.. are there any other semi-auto .44 mag carbines out there?

And if not.. how do the two Ruger models stack up? I'm really wary of 'em, given my prior experience with Minis.

Ideally, I'd like to find a stainless semi-auto .44 that had about the same weight and balance of an 1892 levergun.

 

[asknight]

I know of no other .44 semi-auto carbine, so I will ramble about the two models for a bit.

The older 10/22 receiver style carbines used a rifling twist well suited to 240gr bullets. The trick was to keep a good recoil spring in it to keep from battering the receiver or cracking the stock in the wrist, similarly to the Marlin Camp Carbine in .45ACP. The early carbine utilized a tube magazine which I feel is better suited to the short/fat .44 with blunt nose bullets, but it was hurt by the requirement that it utilize a lifter mechanism akin to a semi-auto shotgun increasing the parts count, and sadly, timing issues after several thousand rounds. ~1.5" @ 100 yards or better with 240gr JSPs was commonplace.

The newer Deerfields have a tighter twist for heavier bullets up to ~300gr or so, and use a 4 round rotary box magazine. I feel that the Ruger style rotary magazine is not ideally suited to the short/fat .44 but does solve the problem of the lifter mechanism of the earlier carbine by deleting it entirely and relying on the M1 Carbine principle of the bolt feeding the chamber directly from the magazine. I've typically seen ~2" @ 100yds with 270-300gr bullets from these newer Deerfields. Reliability is excellent after a few thousand rounds thus far.

With my Mini-14 experience, I am a bit dumbfounded at how accurate the Deerfield is when it is truthfully nothing more than a Mini on steroids.

 

[tex_n_cal]

I can't think of any other semi auto carbines in .44, either.

What I have noticed about Ruger Minis and an early .44 carbine was the slick plastic buttplate made accuracy much worse. Try one of the replacements stocks with a rubber butt, or adhesive backed rubber on the buttplate. I think Brownells sell a steel replacement that could also be checkered.

 

[Euclidean]

I love .44 Magnum out of a long gun too, and truthfully I've just decided to be happy with my 1894. .44 Semiautos seem to be a problematic design for some strange reason.

I have found a way to scratch my itch however: an M1 carbine. I realize it's not .44 Magnum, but for my purposes I discovered it was close enough for what I wanted to do with it, and I have detachable box magazines and semiautomatic operation.

A compromise, yes, but I feel these pieces are specialized and I'm willing to make the compromise. And FWIW my authentic USGI M1 cost no more than a Ruger Deerfield does around here. I know telling you to go look for something else other than what you really want isn't an answer, but I was in the same position and this is what I wound up doing and I am satisfied with it.

I'm with ya though, if someone made a good self loading detachable box magazine fed stainless steel .44 magnum carbine, I'd want two of them.

 

[rslscobra]

Hello, I love the older model .44 carbine's so much, that I own five of them,yes, I said "5."

To add to what has been said above the older carbine is also much lighter then the newer model. I also like the older carbine's action over the newer model. In addition I use mine for deer hunting and have taken deer up to 100yrds.. I have mine set up to shot the 300gr. Hornady Custom ammo and have not had any problems. Hits hard and excellent knock down power.

I am willing to sell one.

Just my 2cents.

 

[blackedoutharley]

"I am willing to sell one"



REALLY?

do tell more

 

[rslscobra]

"Do tell more"

What do you want to know?

 

[rslscobra]

PM me with email address for pictures if interested.

 

[Ranger J]

I have a Deerfield and am very fond of it. There I a down side to it. I do not believe it will shoot 300g bullets unless they are loaded ‘strange’ because of the length. The stock leaves a lot to be desired. It badly needs a recoil pad, as it requires full power loads to cycle correctly. I have found 240 g SP to work very well. After a number of these at the range your shoulder man start to complain. Because of the design of the stock but it would be hard to add say a grind to fit recoil pad and I don’t know of any replacement stock that will fit the 44 carbine. I use mine to deer hunt and have never had a deer do more than drop in its stacks. It is much more accurate than my Mini 30.

 

[rslscobra]

Wow, thats weird...my 44 carbines with the 300gr rounds are very comfortable to shot. Hell, you can shot all day and not have to worry about your shoulder.

 

[Ranger J]

Now I am talking about the Deerfield not the earlier .44 mag. The problem with the 300g bullets involves the rotary magazine, which will not load cartridges beyond a certain length. The older .44 with the different, a tube magazine I think, may not have this problem. I believe the instructions that come with the Deerfield instruct the owner to not try to shoot cartridges beyond a certain length. The 300-g bullets that are loaded to correct length that I shoot in my Handi Rifle will not load in my Deerfield. I would rather shoot targets with my 30-06 742 than the Deerfield. I am not bad mouthing the Deerfield I just think Ruger missed a chance to make a good gun great by not putting a different stock on it, preferably with a recoil pad. As I could not find one to fit I shoot mine with a shoulder pad. That way I can shoot all day without difficulty. Recoil is subjective. I am too old to enjoy it anymore. If all my guns had the recoil of a .22, I would be happy.
RJ

 

[asknight]

Ranger J, you do have a valid point. I also agree that the Handi-Rifle has an extremely long chamber compared to the Deerfield magazine and chamber. But... the problem you speak of has since been successfully addressed with the Hornady 300gr XTP hollowpoints which have two distinct crimping cannelures with one specifically for certain short chamber uses such as the Deerfield. These are perfect where you have to use a 240gr OAL to facilitate magazine loading, etc. A little bit of experimenting with certain powders and you can load a 300gr XTP to a 240gr length OAL and still retain expected 300gr velocities at safe pressures.

 

[albanian]

My dad used to have a Ruger 44 mag carbine. I was not impressed despite the fact that I wanted to like it. It kicked almost as much as a 12 ga and was not very accurate. We even had a nice scope on it but it never seemed to want to shoot very well. We were getting 4" groups at 70 yards from a rest with handloads so I think this is a MAX 100 yard rifle for deer. I suspect that the groups would be at least 6-8" at 100 yards. Just barely good enough for deer.

As a close range quick shooting woods gun, it may do well. At the ranges that I have seen and shot in Indiana (less than 50 yards), I think it would do well. It is a semi so you could get at least two shots into the deer and maybe even emtpy the gun of the 4-5 shots if you needed to before the deer ran too far. I am a firm believer in using as much gun as you can handle and shooting as many times as you can to put the deer down. Way too many deer run off only to die of the wounds before the "hunter" can track them. Some people are so worried about messing up the meat that they lose the entire animal!

 

[bgold]

I have been impressed with the older .44 Ruger carbines I have shot. Mine with a 3x scope will shoot 1.5" groups @ 100 with Winchester white box 240gr -and my kids shooting it. Keep it under 100 yards, and it is a good brush gun.

 

[Ranger J]

I can’t comment on the older .44s, as I have never shot one. My Deerfield is very accurate and will consistently shoot ‘same hole’ at fifty yards.
Thanks for the info on the 300 –g load info. What powder do you suggest? I use H110 with my 240s. As I remember the 300-g I loaded for my Handi were with AA#9. It has been a while as the Handi with it’s 1in38 didn’t like the 300s much. The Deerfield, 1in20, should do much better.
RJ

 

[asknight]

Ranger J, I've had similar experience with 1:38" only liking 240gr loads. I load the 300gr XTP to 1.60" OAL (same as 240gr) with 20.5grs of H110 providing the push. I use WW brass and primers almost exclusively for this load and get ~1525fps. I think you'll be impressed with this load if you try it. It is accurate and doesn't feel to recoil any more than a warm 240gr load.

 

[albanian]

"I have been impressed with the older .44 Ruger carbines I have shot. Mine with a 3x scope will shoot 1.5" groups @ 100 with Winchester white box 240gr -and my kids shooting it. Keep it under 100 yards, and it is a good brush gun."

Are you serious? I'm sorry but I have a hard time buying that the Ruger carbin will do 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards. We had one and it wouldn't do 1 1/2" at 50 yards MUCH less 100 yards. Are you sure?

 

[asknight]

albanian, reread post #2. I've confirmed 1.5" groups @ 100 yards consistently using an earlier 1:38" .44 carbine and both Federal and Winchester 240gr JSP loads. This was not the newer 1:20" detachable-mag carbine which prefers 265-300gr loads.

I must say that either you had a filthy bore, bad barrel, bad ammo, or a bad shooter behind the trigger to get groups as bad as you describe.

Yes, it's kinda tricky to properly clean the bore of a Ruger carbine especially after leading the bore with lead bullets. After that, I went to jacketed only for the Ruger.

 

[albanian]

My dad had one of the old carbins as well and we couldn't get any groups as good as 1 1/2". I consider 1 1/2" groups to be pretty good. I have AR-15s that will do 1 1/2" but guns like the Ruger carbin can't keep up. From what I have seen of only two Ruger carbins, the are not very accurate. I would rank them close to a good SKS in terms of accuracy but I am not an expert.

It just seems like people throw of group sizes like 1" at 100 yards all the time but in real life, 1 MOA is a very good shooting rifle.

I had a Mini-14 and it was much more accurate than the Ruger carbin. It appears we have had opposite results. I have got close to 1 1/2" groups with my scope Mini. I think that is uncommon from what I hear but I am happy with it.

 

[rangerruck]

i htink marlin and tuarus both make one, the marlin is called the camp carbine.

 

[asknight]

rangerruck, neither Marlin nor Taurus make a semi-auto .44 Magnum carbine. The Marlin Camp Carbine was chambered in 9mm and .45ACP, but alas, neither of those are still in production.

 

[khofmann]

.44 ruger mag carbine

I have a semi-auto made in 1978. They called it the " Deerstalker"(precursor to the Deerfield. When I first got it i had all sorts of feed and jam issues with rounds loaded for pistols. I used the Hornady guidelines for 220 xtp and 240 xtp bullets loaded for rifles and then finished each round with a taper crimp. I am now a real happy guy. Hard hitting and great cycling. I am still finalizing my loads so i will not discuss groupings yet but if it is within a 100 yds it is dead.

A question for youse guys.

I was trying to dissassemble the bolt and slide of my carbine per the ruger instruction manual but ran into a part discription problem/ Paraphrased as follows:
",remove the trigger guard-reciever pin, and" This "pin" is not referenced in the parts list and I do not want to make a mistake and loose something. Does anyone know what the component part number (C-?)is is for this pin, as referenced in the Ruger Carbine component parts list?:banghead:

Any help is always appreciated

 

[Gordon]

I have an OLD DeerStalker from early 70's that has the metal butt. It has the factory peep sight too. I killed many a pig with it. I had Ruger rebuild it in the later 80's as the gas port was leaded up from Lead bullets! They sent it back looking like new and it has worked 100% sent then, but I only use jacketed ammo. It likes 180 grain ammo; far more accurate, and I have clocked the Federal stuff over 2000fps It has become my bedroom rifle these days, as the AKs and Ars are locked up. I like it loads like an 870, as I can do that instantly by feel!

 

[Billybluesky]

We have had a Ruger 44 mag carbine in the family since the early 70s (tube fed). I recently took it to the range for the first time - shot 3" (horiz) 1 3/4" vertical groups at 100 yards with iron sights (not peep sites) with factory Remington 240 gr lead medium load. No scope, no sand bag rests. Frankly, I was shocked - never would have believed this had I not seen it. I think with a scope and sand bags, under 2 inch groups are very likely. Groups were about 3 1/2" low at 100 yards.

I shot a big buck once with it with 240 jhp - deer was about 70 yards away, and was looking straight at me from behind a bush. All I could see was his head and a big rack of horns. I aimed for between the eyes and shot. The left antler dropped like it was hinged on his head, and then he dropped - when I got there, his head was split wide open.

What's interesting is that velocity with 180 gr factory loads is about 2,100 ft/sec or just under. I have shot hundreds of rounds with this gun of all bullet weights up to 240 gr and it has NEVER jammed. Therefore, I have a hard time believing the stories that this gun is prone to jamming. I have never taken good care of this gun - it has not been cleaned very much and has been thrown around and beat on, been under water, in the sand, etc. It has been a great gun for the long term for us and is surprisingly accurate.