senator wants cameras on cop guns

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And, TAB, there is nothing that I can buy for work that you (as a law-abiding non-felon over the age of 21) can't go out and buy on your own.


You are very much wrong about that. You can buy any hand gun, even those off the approved list, you can buy hicap mags, you can buy an AW, you can buy AP ammo,... do I really need to go on?


cops/ fire men risking thier lives...

OSHA does not even have you guys in the top 10 most dangerous jobs... so please stop playing that card.
 
believe it was Albuquerque, where police went on strike due to pay cuts from lower tax revenues.

Crime DROPPED, as people started purchasing firearms for defense.
Sorry, but I'm going to want some evidence to back up that wild claim.

For the purposes of this issue let's pretend my name is Thomas and that I'm from Missouri.
 
Originally Posted by DMF
...While occasionally civilians* can be charged in both state and fed court for the same offense, and while it's rare for both cops and civilians* alike, it's more common for cops to be the exception where both fed and state prosecutions are done for the same crime.



* cop haters don't get your panties in a wad, it's common usage of that term, for ease of distinction.

I'm not a cop hater, just a former soldier who likes clarity. Common usage can still be incorrect. The word "citizens" applies to non-police civilians.

Civilian police are not military.
 
TAB said:
You are very much wrong about that. You can buy any hand gun, even those off the approved list, you can buy hicap mags, you can buy an AW, you can buy AP ammo,... do I really need to go on?


cops/ fire men risking thier lives...

OSHA does not even have you guys in the top 10 most dangerous jobs... so please stop playing that card.

Wrong again, TAB. You make wild assumptions based soley on your opinion, then assume that things are the way you think.

Yes, I can buy a handgun off of the approved list (so can you!). But, I still can be suspended from work if I choose to carry it as a CCW weapon (you can't).

You can also buy high capacity magazines, haven't you been following the news? My duty rifle is sold on the shelves in many gun stores, and requires no special departmental authorization to buy (you could buy it).

I can not buy AP ammo. My department does not authorize me to do so, and would not provide letterhead for me to do if if I wanted. As I said, again, my ammo is nothing special. You could buy it at any gun store.

So, yeah, I guess you do need to go on... Because, frankly, you have no idea what you are talking about!



And, where did the ten most dangerous jobs thing come in? It is true that we lose applicants because of the danger... whether or not it is in OSHA's "top ten" list. My department has lost 60 officers in the line of duty, and I know of dozens of guys (personally) who have received SBI (serious bodily injury) in the performance of their duties. We had an officer killed my first week on the job. Do we lose as many guys as crab fishing in AK? Maybe not... But that still doesn't mean that it isn't a factor that sways otherwise qualified applicants from the job. I know the risks (and don't consider them excessive), I accept it as part of my job, but it can still be a major factor when trying recruit people (which is what I was talking about in the previous post). So, don't take what I say, and misrepresent it to mean whatever you would like!

This job does require a certain amount of inherent aggression, and a willingness to walk into situations that most people won't. And the perks you speak of don't exist. We do risky things, whether or not they all involve shootings.

So, what is your point, sir??






Also, for those of you who have responded about also getting in trouble at your jobs, two careers that were mentioned stand out as ones that I have also done:

I managed a car rental company years ago, and drove company vehicles. Never had an issue with getting a ticket (whereas now I do)... And, the alleged "professional courtesy" thing would never even be possible with a photo radar/parking ticket anyway (and I don't drink and drive, and wouldn't expect to get away with it if I did. It is dangerous and stupid, so stop assuming that cops are just out there DUI on their own time).

I also worked for a bank for some time. Police contact would not get you in trouble or fired there... Short of a fraud type of offense, or a felony, you were free and clear as far as work was concerned. That is absolutely not the case in LE, and I could EASILY be fired over a disorderly conduct city ticket or a DUI (the banker will not be).
 
I really appreciate what you guys do, but that "risking your life" card is overplayed by cops, fireman, and others. Fact is, out of hundreds of thousands of cops, only a hundred or so a year are killed. One could easily say that crab fisherman and farmers are risking their lives so you can eat, since they die in larger proportion
When was the last time a crab assaulted or murdered a fisherman because he was a fisherman? When was the last time a pig or a corn stalk assaulted or murdered a farmer because he had that job? There is a huge difference between work related accidents vs. being actively targeted for violence because of your job.

Think the risking lives thing is overplayed? How about you do a few traffic stops all by yourself, where you're outnumbered and have no idea what the occupants of the car are involved with? How about you go break up a domestic disturbance where both the crook and victim might both try to assault and kill you? How about you go undercover into a house full of violent gang members all by yourself to get evidence, knowing that if things break bad you will likely be maimed or dead before the cover team can get to you? Tell me the risking lives card is overplayed AFTER you've done a few of those things.
 
This job does require a certain amount of inherent aggression, and a willingness to walk into situations that most people won't. And the perks you speak of don't exist.
Aside from the low pay, lack of respect, constant danger, meddling supervisors and citizen oversight committees, lousy shifts, extra duty, etc. etc.. Why do you do it?
When was the last time a crab assaulted or murdered a fisherman because he was a fisherman? When was the last time a pig or a corn stalk assaulted or murdered a farmer because he had that job?
I'll give you some free advice, don't put your hand in the tank and don't fall into the pen.
Edit to add: Oh, and as a life long roofer...gravity ain't your friend..
 
Yes, I can buy a handgun off of the approved list (so can you!). But, I still can be suspended from work if I choose to carry it as a CCW weapon (you can't).


No I can not walk down to the local gun store and buy an off list hand gun. I worked for a FFL for years, I can't tell you how many "race guns" were ordered by LEOs, several of those were "sold" privaty party with in a week of being released( I know I both sold and did the PPT) Just becuase your agency does not allow the purchuse of AP ammo, does not mean others don't, you atleat have a chance to legally buy it. a civi in CA does not.


as far as LEO being murdered... most LEO deaths are TRAFFIC related. Being a LEO is still safer then being a tow truck driver...

The loss of a life is a sad thing, but forgive me if I don't see the diffrence between a cop that was killed on duty and a tow truck driver on a grave yard shift trying to feed his family.
You say doing a traffic stop is scary, what about the female RE agent showing houses in the "bad part" of town.( look at the stats for them being attacked) Atleast you have a firearm to defend yourself, most RE agents don't have that luxury
 
Aside from the low pay,

Not every where... example, from time to time orgs ( both gov and private) release stats on average wages of diffrent groups. Every one I've seen in the last 10 years shows LEO making more, then the average HOUSE HOLD in the US.
 
You are also overstating the incidence of death.

For cops, the majority of deaths are due to auto accidents. 58 cops killed last year by assault, out of a total of 850,000 total officers nationwide. That makes your odds of dying by felonious assault on the job at 1 in 14,655.

To put that in perspective: a non-LEO citizen's odds of dying by assault are 1 in 16,919. That means that being a LEO only increases one's chances of death by 14%. More dangerous? Sure. Intensely dangerous? Not really.

ETA source: National Safety Council
 
For cops, the majority of deaths are due to auto accidents. 58 cops killed last year by assault, out of a total of 850,000 total officers nationwide. That makes your odds of dying by felonious assault on the job at 1 in 14,655.

To put that in perspective: a non-LEO citizen's odds of dying by assault are 1 in 16,919. That means that being a LEO only increases one's chances of death by 14%. More dangerous? Sure. Intensely dangerous? Not really.
uh, no.....14655 / 16919 =.866 or just under 9%....
 
DMF, I have been shot at and have had many guns pulled on me. I am but a forester. Oh, and that places me working in the #1 most dangerous location, the logging operation. Guess I better wear that chip on my shoulder. And if you don't think I'm important, you must not wipe your butt real often in the bathroom :evil:

Ash
 
OK I just have to pass on this info to everyone.A few weeks ago I printed out one of the cop bashing threads and shredded it.I then put it in my garden soil.Thanks to the high density of BS in the thread,my flowers are the best in the neighbothood.Thanx guys
 
Personally I think it wouldn't be much good. I realize police often draw their guns preemptively, but it seems that the main elements required for a "good shoot" often happen before the gun is drawn. Why not just put a camera in their badge or something? Seriously...
 
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