Serbu Super Shorty range report

[RyanM]

Just picked the gun up yesterday. Transferred by Scott of Bloodhound arms. All around great guy, fast response to inquiries, and the lowest title II transfer price I've seen, at $50. If you're in SW PA, he's the NFA dealer to use. Only problem is he can't do destructive devices on his license.

Mine's a Mossberg 500 one. I like the tang safety and aluminum receiver, and refuse to ever own a gun with a built-in lock, so no Rem 870 for me.

With target loads, recoil was stiff but manageable. Firing one-handed was painful, but I didn't smash my face with the barrel. I'd say they kicked about like a .44 magnum. Seeing the wads fly downrange was fun. Total spread was about 2 feet at 10 yards, so it's really not going to pattern that great. Not much of a trap gun.

Full power 2-3/4" 1 oz. slugs were incredible! Huge recoil, and a 2 foot wide ball of flame. The blast was ridiculous. If anyone else had been on the range, they probably would have either given me really dirty looks and left, or been begging me to try it out. Maybe next time there'll be someone there.

My right hand is pretty sore from the slugs. I fired three before deciding that was enough. I'm waiting on a Pachmayr grip from Midway, which should help. Should also make it easier to reach the safety, since there's no hump. Overall, though, I'd really say it kicked less than a .454 Casull, mostly because of the slower velocity (but heavier weight) slugs, and the weight of the gun. The rubber Pachmayr grip should really help tame it.

Pictures later.

 

[RyanM]

Pics!

I'm too lazy to set up the tripod and stuff.

I can't figure out what model it was before it went to Serbu. The bolt and elevator are some kind of matte black/dark gray finish rather than shiny. The barrel says it was originally 20" on it. What kind of Mossberg 500 has a black bolt and 20" barrel, and comes with a pistol grip only?

I'm planning on putting a scope mount on, and a Millett red dot. If those Milletts will hold up on a Ruger SRH in .454, they should hold up on this.

 

[chief]

???????

What kind of spread do you get at social distance with field loads? I have lusted after one of these for years.

 

[RyanM]

Not sure about field loads, I only shot some Remington Gun Club #8 target loads (the lower power ones, 1-1/8 oz. at 1145 fps), and Remington regular power slugs. The trap loads, you can sorta see from the picture. The background is the piece of cardboard I shot at 10 yards.

I missed the center of the cardboard (the wad hole isn't centered, it's about 4" off), but from the looks of it, if I'd used a larger piece of cardboard, the entire pattern would have been 2 feet wide.

Personally, if I were planning on using this for social purposes, I'd handload some reduced velocity slugs. 7/8 ounce at 800 fps or so would be very controllable, and would not make anyone's day. And the poor sectional density that slugs have actually means it would penetrate fewer walls than a pistol round. Sort of like shooting a pre-expanded hollowpoint.

Slugs pretty much went where they were pointed. I was able to hit a man sized target with 3 out of 3 at 10 yards, despite having no sights. I'll be able to comment on the inherent accuracy of the gun after getting a scope mount and my Pachmayr grip.

Hm, my hand has more or less stopped hurting by now. The recoil really wasn't as bad as I was expecting. The Pachmayr grip should make the gun downright tame, considering the shape and air pocket thing. I may need to get me some 3" magnum slugs. Maybe Brenneke Black Magic, or Remington Buckhammers?

 

[doubleaes2]

What kind of Mossberg 500 has a black bolt and 20" barrel, and comes with a pistol grip only?

Lots of them, go here.

http://mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=5&section=products
http://www.bigskyguns.com/Mossberg-Mossberg_Model_500_Persuader_8_Shot_12ga.html

 

[RyanM]

I already looked at Mossberg.com. None of the 500s have a pistol grip only (not "includes pistol grip kit"), 20" barrel, and black bolt.

The 8 shot cruiser has a shiny bolt. http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/NEW/50580.jpg

The tactical cruiser with breaching attachment has an 18.5" barrel. http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/NEW/54125.jpg

The "rolling thunder" has a 23" barrel, and it's a 6-shot model which indicates that the huge thing is threaded onto an 18.5" barrel. http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/NEW/55605.jpg

 

[nerfsrule2]

I just put a post out on this.. Sorry I should have done a better search.. What is your use for this gun?? HD!!! Does the 870 have a built in lock?? there is a guy @ every gun show at the Farm show in Harrisburg trying to sell his inventory of these. Remington goes for around $750.. I have seen them a little cheaper on gun broker, but never a used one..What model of grip.. Is it for the rear or the fold able front handle... Try a little ice on the bruise..I am considering picking one up..

 

[RyanM]

Remingtons do have the built-in J-lock. That and the tang safety are why I chose a Mossberg 500 one.

I actually bought mine from a place called Exeter arms in Nebraska, for $650 + $17.50 shipping + $5 tax + $50 transfer. Not recommended! $650 is the best price I've ever seen, but Rob at Exeter gave me the runaround, lied repeatedly on the phone about why it was taking so long to ship, and screwed up the paperwork for the transfer to Scott here in PA. End result, I paid for the gun November 15, and it didn't arrive in the state until Febuary 20th! One time, I called that Rob clown around 11:00 in the morning on a weekday, and he was drunk! That's probably why the paperwork was screwed up! Avoid Exeter Arms/Rob like the plague.

In case you didn't know, as a title II (or NFA, or sometimes called class III even though that's the FFL license to deal in them, not the weapon) firearm, you would need to have your county sheriff sign off on some forms stating that there is no evidence available to him that you will use the weapon for unlawful purposes. Then you need two sets of fingerprints taken (the state police will do those for free if you go to your local barracks), and two color passport sized photos. That's if you want to personally own the firearm, anyway, rather than registering it to a corperation or trust or something that you own. And it looks like trusts in PA are a real pain.

Anyway, you need all that and a check or money order for $5 for the tax stamp, in the case of a Serbu. Send everything to the ATF, and the normal mailbox-to-mailbox turnaround is about 60 days for your tax stamp to come back. Mine took 48 days. Once the forms come back approved, you can go to your dealer and take possession of the firearm.

Anyway, I mostly bought this as a fun gun. I love hand cannons, can't help it, and the idea of a 12 gauge "handgun" appeals to me, even though a .454 Casull would be the exact same power with double the shots. Shooting the Serbu with slugs is easily the most fun I've had in years.

For home defense, like I said above, it's handloaded ammo only. I really was not exaggerating when I said the Remington 2-3/4" slugs made a 2 foot wide fireball. And the blast was incredible. There is no doubt that you would have severely damaged hearing for the rest of your life, if you fired that thing indoors with full power ammo. It may be possible to get it about as loud as a normal pistol or rifle, if you handloaded a 7/8 oz. slug down to 800 fps or so, but I don't know for sure.

One thing about home defense is that any crime committed with a title II weapon automatically becomes a federal felony if you're convicted, so there's some extra liability there. In a perfect world, it wouldn't matter, but, you know how it works.

Just as a fun gun, though, if you like the big cannons, the Serbu is very hard to beat. .454 Casull may be more practical and .460 and .500 S&W mag may be more powerful, but the Serbu beats them all in bore diameter and versatility (shot loads). And $750 + $5 transfer tax + sales tax wouldn't be a bad price for an 870 Shorty. $800 exactly. Keep in mind that if you order one on Gunbroker, you'd probably be looking at a $100 transfer fee, as that's about the going rate for title II transfers.

Oh, and the Pachmayr grip is a rear grip. Soft rubber, with some kind of air pocket inside. Supposed to be very comfortable. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=496916&t=11082005 There really are no commercial front grips that will fit a Serbu.

 

[Regolith]

Remingtons do have the built-in J-lock.

Not anymore, they don't. They stopped including the J-lock around 2006 or 2007.

 

[doubleaes2]

None of the 500s have a pistol grip only (not "includes pistol grip kit"), 20" barrel, and black bolt.

I don't know why they are no longer on the website, but any distributor's catalogue (Ellett Bros. RSR) will list a 20" barrel, 8 shot parkerized pistol grip only cruiser. This does have a dark bolt also.

It's this model, in parkerized finish, not blue that comes with the dark bolt.
http://www.galleryofguns.com/Genie/Default.aspx?item=50580&index=1&mfg=Mossberg&mdl=500&cat=2&type=Shotgun&cal=12+Gauge&fin=All&sit=All&pid=

The shotgun on the very bottom was one, before I added the full stock, you can see the dark bolt there.

 

[nerfsrule2]

RyanM.. Thanks for all of the info...Very much appreciated !!!

 

[RyanM]

Not anymore, they don't. They stopped including the J-lock around 2006 or 2007.

Didn't know that, cool. Does that make Remington the first manufacturer to remove an integral lock? Still, a lot of dealers, especially ones selling Serbus, may still have old stock with the lock.

-----------

I don't know why they are no longer on the website, but any distributor's catalogue (Ellett Bros. RSR) will list a 20" barrel, 8 shot parkerized pistol grip only cruiser. This does have a dark bolt also.

Hm, interesting. Is the matte finish receiver a lighter shade of black/gray than the blued ones? It looks like it in your photo, and sorta looks like it in the stock photos on mossberg.com, but lighting angles can do crazy things. Also, do you know if the parked bolts are still stainless, or do they use some other alloy?

 

[Taurus44]

Damn. I need one of those to round out the NFA collection... I have the SBR, SBS and a couple cans. Just missing the AoW (and the FA, of course ).

 

[Dan Forrester]

Last week I laid down $770 on one of the 870 MCS breacher guns. It is their AOW only version with out the rem-loc and extra barrels.

I went with the factory Remington since it was built on the magnum receiver and has all the reliability enhancing features of the Remington military division shotguns. It also comes with a 10” barrel and a 3 shot tube.

I think Remington created this little breacher gun in response to the SSS popularity.

Do you know what kind of velocity reduction you get with the 6.5” barrel?

Also, have you tried any of the 3” shells?

It still amazes me that there are 5 shot revolvers out there that pack the same punch as a full size pump shotgun with slugs. However like you said short shotguns offer much better selection of ammunition which is available anywhere. You can go from inexpensive light shot for only $5 a box of 25 all the way up to 3” buck shot or even signaling flares in an emergency.

Dan

 

[RyanM]

Do you know what kind of velocity reduction you get with the 6.5” barrel?

Actually, the barrel is about 7-3/16", measured the way the ATF does. 6.5" is from the front of the receiver, instead of the breech face. Dunno how Mossberg measures them. Overall length, once again the way the ATF does it, is 16-7/8" with the factory grip, so it's not like Serbu is really misrepresenting anything. They just measure the barrel different.

Anyway, I have some calculated velocities, one of which is confirmed. Gun tests did an experiment awhile back where they cut down an old single shot a bit at a time, chronoing it with Remington 2-3/4" slugs (the exact same brand I fired) and patterning with buckshot. With a 6-7/8" barrel, they got 1,117 fps. My calculator says 1,139 fps for that barrel length, so it's very close. Take off about 20 fps and you'd probably be in the right ballpark with the other ones, too. Anyway, for a 7-3/16" breach face to muzzle barrel, I get:

2-3/4" 1 oz slug (rated at 1560 fps) - 1155 fps - 1296 ft-lbs
2-3/4" 1 oz RR slug (1200 fps) - 966 fps - 906 ft-lbs
3" mag 7/8 oz slug (1875 fps) - 1324 fps - 1490 ft-lbs
3" mag 1-3/8 oz buckhammer (1500 fps) - 1058 fps - 1496 ft-lbs

2-3/4" 1-1/8 oz target load (1145 fps) - 919 fps - 923 ft-lbs
2-3/4" 1-1/8 oz target load (1200 fps) - 950 fps - 986 ft-lbs

2-3/4" 000 8-pellet buck (1325 fps) - 1002 fps - 1248 ft-lbs
2-3/4" 00 8-pellet RR buck (1200 fps) - 972 fps - 906 ft-lbs

So like I said, kicks about like a .44 mag with the target loads, and is a bit more comfortable than .454 with standard slugs. If you do the momentum instead of velocity, slugs overlap almost perfectly with .454 Casull offerings, though.

To be totally honest, .357 magnum 125 gr Remington SJHPs out of an SP-101 with the factory grips hurt my hand more than slugs from the Serbu!

Also, have you tried any of the 3” shells?

Not yet, but I plan on it! Especially the 3" magnum 7/8 ounce ones. Muzzle flash on those has to be something!

It still amazes me that there are 5 shot revolvers out there that pack the same punch as a full size pump shotgun with slugs. However like you said short shotguns offer much better selection of ammunition which is available anywhere. You can go from inexpensive light shot for only $5 a box of 25 all the way up to 3” buck shot or even signaling flares in an emergency.

I also like the ergonomics a bit better. I have pretty short index fingers. I have trouble even reaching the trigger on a K-frame with stocks that leave the backstrap exposed, so I can pretty much forget about the big frame DA revolvers. But trigger reach on the Serbu is fine. I just hope the Pachmayr grips don't increase the reach any. Doesn't look like they do.

 

[Chrontius]

doubleaes, is that a Brinkmann Maxfire LX on that Cruiser, sans rubber grip?

 

[Eric-WA]

Curiosity. Isn't the Tang safety a little difficult to engage with the PG? Do you have to move your hand completely from firing position?

I agree with you regarding the J-lock on the 870's, but it seems like if you could get a newer remmy sans j-lock it'd be easier to navigate the safety on the way to the trigger.

Thanks for the review Ryan, always been curious about these.

 

[RyanM]

Curiosity. Isn't the Tang safety a little difficult to engage with the PG? Do you have to move your hand completely from firing position?

A little. That's part of the reason why I'm getting an aftermarket grip. The Pachmayr has a lot less of a "hump."

http://www.autoweapons.com/photos06/jan/870lmbreech.html

I was originally getting a Speedfeed pistol grip, but Midway sent me an 870 one in a Mossberg 500 box twice in a row (at least they paid return shipping), so I sent it back again and requested an exchange for a Pachmayr instead.

http://www.autoweapons.com/photosv/870aow.html

The Speedfeed woulda made it even easier to reach the safety, and I like the old-school look, but Midway's employees apparently couldn't find the "R870" written on the side (the second one had been taken out of the package and inspected), and Speedfeed's customer service was a little apathetic.

I agree with you regarding the J-lock on the 870's, but it seems like if you could get a newer remmy sans j-lock it'd be easier to navigate the safety on the way to the trigger.

Maybe, but I also really don't like cross-bolt safeties in general. Maybe I'm dyslexic, but I can never remember which direction is safe and which is fire. The Mossberg is a lot more intuitive. Push in the direction the shot is supposed to go, and it fires.

 

[RyanM]

New picture. Pachmayr grip and a scope mount.

It's starting to look like that crazy sawed-off from Predator 2...