Serious question about ak variants

[Expertowgunner]

Well ive owned about 4 different ak rifles and have sold or traded everyone for different reasons but i have the opportunity to pick a sar-1 for around 350 and am wondering about whether i should pick it up for spend the extra 125 online for maybe a yugo underfolder. Im on a limited budget right now the way work is and really can only afford a ak for around 500 and under. Ive owned super high quality (vepr k2 in 7.62) to the low (wasr-10/63) and am wondering how much better quality is the sar-1 to the wasr. Also i believe it was a ban era model with no bayonet lug or flash hider what are the laws about converting something like that (like a quad rail, folding stock, attaching a comp or hider etc). Ive thought about getting a saiga in the past but honestly to get it to look and perform the way i want it to it will cost too much to build (dont want to use tapco equipment). any thoughts?

 

[nalioth]

Underfolders suck (just my opinion). Underfolders made from parts kits can suck all the more (especially ones produced by Century).

That's a good price on the SAR-1 (I'm assuming it comes with at least one mag). It's entirely made in Romania (not from a parts kit), with a standard mag well (no monkeys hogging stuff out, like on a WASR) and is a pretty good AK.


As far as the muzzle threads or bayo lugs, you can do what you like, so long as it's 922r compliant.

 

[Expertowgunner]

so if all i did was wanted to do is put a ak-74 break on it will it be legal? and also should i get it threaded or just do the pin on dial just wanting to know. also there was a bit of slop in the cover it shifts to the right a bit if pressure is applied. can this be fixed or something i just have to get used to.

 

[nalioth]

so if all i did was wanted to do is put a ak-74 break on it will it be legal?

What part of "so long as it's 922r compliant" is hard to understand?

If you're gonna use an AK74 brake, I'd find a 24mm threaded front sight block and buy an actual Bulgarian or East German (or Russian, but good luck on that one) AK74 brake or an accurate US copy of the aforementioned.

The ~$19.99 cheapies just add some weight to the end of your gun and really don't work for anything but 922r compliance, when compared to the actual military design.

also there was a bit of slop in the cover it shifts to the right a bit if pressure is applied. can this be fixed or something i just have to get used to.

Don't apply pressure?

If it doesn't fall off, it's not an issue.

 

[Snakum]

The ~$19.99 cheapies just add some weight to the end of your gun and really don't work for anything but 922r compliance, when compared to the actual military design.

I'll have to disagree with that one. I put the Tapco 74 brake on one of my 10/63s and it made a significant difference from the stock slant brake. I was able to shoot both side-by-side for a couple of months and it worked so well I put one on the other rifle, as well. Does it work as well as the issue Warsaw 74 brake? I dunno. I haven't shot a real AK74 since I was in the military so I don't remember, and it would have been firing 5.45 anyway. On a 7.62 the Tapco brake works. I got them for $14.99 and still consider it money well spent.

On the SAR quality compared to WASR or any other AK variant, I have no idea. My much-maligned 10/63s will shoot 2" groups with Brown Bear HPs with a cold barrel from a rest, with the occasional sub 2" group. They have not given me a single issue in a thousand rounds each. Maybe I got lucky? The part numbers match on both my rifles and the CAI monkeys must have been sober that day.

It's an AK. I wouldn't sweat relative quality among the lower end and even mid range examples. If you want AK-Maximus you're going to have to go to a Krebs or a Valmet to see a real value for the extra dough, imho.

 

[Almond27]

What part of "so long as it's 922r compliant" is hard to understand?

Maybe he doesn't know about 922r. You might not want to be so rude before you know. Treating people like they are dumb isn't accomplishing anything.

 

[nalioth]

I put the Tapco 74 brake on one of my 10/63s and it made a significant difference from the stock slant brake.

That they do.

The discussion is about "AK74 brakes", not comparing slant brakes to AK74 brakes.

Does it work as well as the issue Warsaw 74 brake?

Not anywhere close.

What part of "so long as it's 922r compliant" is hard to understand?

Maybe he doesn't know about 922r. You might not want to be so rude before you know. Treating people like they are dumb isn't accomplishing anything.

My apologies for expecting people to use Google or other search engines to look up terms they aren't familiar with.

The simple search 922r at google brings a plethora of information, with the first result satisfactorily explaining the law in question.

 

[elmerfudd]

I'll have to disagree with that one. I put the Tapco 74 brake on one of my 10/63s and it made a significant difference from the stock slant brake. I was able to shoot both side-by-side for a couple of months and it worked so well I put one on the other rifle, as well. Does it work as well as the issue Warsaw 74 brake? I dunno. I haven't shot a real AK74 since I was in the military so I don't remember, and it would have been firing 5.45 anyway. On a 7.62 the Tapco brake works. I got them for $14.99 and still consider it money well spent.

I've found the same thing. I've got both, and the Tapco brakes do work reasonably well. I've never really done a side by side comparison though as I have them mounted on different rifles in different calibers. I think that it should just be common sense though that the vast majority of any recoil killing effect is due to the two monster size vents up front and not those three tiny holes in the sides or the two tiny squigley vents. I'm also a little dubious about the value of the gas chamber in the genuine brakes when it comes to recoil. I don't doubt that it has an effect on flash suppression though. There was obviously quite a bit of thought that went into it.

I think that any difference in recoil between the Tapco brake and the real thing would be entirely a matter of tolerances at the muzzle of the brake.

 

[mshootnit]

One thing about Nalioth is that he does back up that first gruff line with some pretty good information, showing that he does care about the thread. I have noticed that. Some guys do worse.

I have owned an CUR2, SLR 95, SLR101, SGL-31, Saiga 308, Vepr 308, and a family member has an SAR1. I would have to say that the advantages of the SAR 1 might include a little better finish on the wood and metal, but the WASR has the no ban goodies, and would be easier to put a muzzle brake on. SO in my book its a wash on the two as long as you get your hands on the wasr first and look it over good. Wasr's may have a little more mag wobble for lack of dimples, but not sure on that one. I don't have any experience with Yugo underfolders but read a review on an M70B that was unusually accurate. I know here we go again but in that price range I like the Saiga's or maybe a 90. I am sure you will find something really good.

 

[elmerfudd]

I've shot a couple of Yugo underfolders and I was impressed with both of them. They used good receivers and good barrels on them and it shows in their accuracy.

Their stocks also have better ergonomics than other underfolders. The Yugos have less drop to them giving a better cheekweld and less muzzle rise.

Unfortunately, it's more difficult to mount optics on them. There's no side rail, the stock prevents you from mounting an aftermarket rail, and the dust cover and gas tube are both non-standard sizes, so if you want a Beryl type mount or a foreend mount you have to order one made especially for Yugos. I know Ultimak makes one.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Yeah, ya gotta step a little gingerly when dealing with 'ol nalioth, he can be a little grumpy, and he doesn't suffer fools,gladly .
But, he definately knows his $h!*, especially concerning AK's, and has helped me out on numerous occasions. He's an asset to the forum.

 

[benEzra]

I shoot a SAR-1, and here are some things to consider:

The SAR-1 has a chrome-lined barrel; the Yugo does not. The SAR-1 also has a left-side optics rail; the Yugo does not. The Yugo is also about a pound heavier, I think (thicker receiver) and a loaded AK is heavy enough already; a loaded 7.62x39mm steel magazine alone weighs ~two pounds.

The SAR-1 does *not* have a bayonet lug or a threaded muzzle, whereas I think the Yugo does. You can have the SAR's muzzle threaded to AKM spec (14x1LH, I think) and put a flash suppressor or brake on it if you want, or just leave it as-is. You may want to upgrade the trigger group to a Tapco G2 (~$35) at some point; the SAR's trigger isn't bad, it is actually better than the trigger on my old mini-14, but a few examples have some slap issues. Mine had a little slap to start with, but it seems to have subsided after a few hundred rounds.

Also, if you want a folding stock (or anything other than the underfolder), I'd personally get the SAR-1 and save up for the stock of your choice. I put a Romanian sidefolding wire stock on mine, but there are a wide variety of stocks available for the SAR's AKM-style receiver, everything from polymer fixed to sidefolding to M4-style. Switching out the stock on a Yugo underfolder is a little less straightforward.

Here's mine, in its original configuration (well, original plus an optic) and then in its current config:

One final thing, they're not importing SAR's anymore, so the ones that are here are all that are coming. For that reason, I think a price of $350 is pretty good (I actually paid more than that for mine in 2003), and I suspect it will only go up from there.