Set us straight, my son and I

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DeepSouth said:
On the other hand, my dad, who was a Vietnam vet, told me that AKs could fire both 7.62x39mm and 5.56x45mm ammo interchangeably--the enemy could pick up our ammo and use it against us! He probably heard the rumor from his buddies because he didn't know much about firearms
I belive your dad is right. I have meet more than one vet that has told me they did it their self, I have personally never tried it nor would I. But as many people as I have meet that claim to have done in, I believe it was possible for a Vietnam military issue AK to fire the 5.56
Off topic, but I'd love to hear an explanation of (1) how a rifle designed to feed and chamber a 39mm long cartridge could also feed and chamber one that was 45mm long; and (2) how a bullet 0.22 in. in diameter could form an effective gas seal in a barrel with a bore about 0.30 in. in diameter.

Here is a 5.54x39 (AK74), a 7.62x39 (AK47) and a 5.56x45

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Opening Post: Might I suggest a blind test with a H&K USP in 9mm and one in 40S&W (or Glock or any other handgun offered in either caliber in the same platform, have a second party hand the gun to the shooter and have him fire first one then the other, not knowing which is which, and judge which kicked more.

People would rather argue theory about guns than to do a simple practical test.
 
The only reason for someone to think muzzle energy has anything to do with free recoil energy would be a misguided notion of what "conservation of energy" means.

That's not what I said--I said it was proportional to the reaction force imparted to one's hand, which makes comparisons more convenient since energy numbers are often published and don't have to be calculated.

That's not energy that does that, but force.

Isn't that what I said? :scrutiny:

There's an inverse relationship between force, and amount of time over which a momentum impulse is delivered. I.e., for the same momentum, less time equals higher force. Thus, a higher velocity bullet with the same momentum, will exert more recoil force for the exact same recoil impulse, because of the shorter dwell time of the bullet in the barrel (assuming equal barrel lengths).

Now, the only way to get the same momentum with a higher velocity is to use a lighter bullet. And a lighter bullet at high speed will always have more energy for the same momentum.

And that higher level of energy will give you some idea of what the underlying force will be, all else being equal--it was just a simple short-cut, not a full explanation of how energy relates to felt recoil.

However, it's the higher velocity which causes both higher energy and "snappy" recoil. Like raincoats and umbrellas; one does not cause the other, a third factor causes both.

That's valid given equal momentum, but when comparing two close but unequal calibers, such as 9mm and .40 S&W in this case, for which velocity and dwell times are very similar for the common bullet masses of similar sectional density, the relevant difference between the calibers comes out to bullet mass, which of course relates directly to force. What I wonder is, according to the collective subjective perception of people, whether 9mm is ever snappier than .40 S&W. To me, 9mm is lighter but just as snappy, however most others seem to think that .40 S&W is always snappier. It all comes down to what "snappiness" really is, which may not necessarily correspond to your technically sound definition.

I shoot the quick SNAP of a 357 better than the longer SHOVE of a 45. Why? Cause I am old skool Revolver and the 357 K-Frame is what I first trained with and mastered.

As stated earlier, I prefer "snappy" recoil, too. If there are more than a few who do, however, then they haven't spoken up much about it.

I belive your dad is right. I have meet more than one vet that has told me they did it their self, I have personally never tried it nor would I. But as many people as I have meet that claim to have done in, I believe it was possible for a Vietnam military issue AK to fire the 5.56

While it's certainly possible to chamber the AK in 5.56x45mm, I heard that the very same rifles could fire either that or 7.62x39mm, which seems pretty farfetched to me. I believe the rumors started because more than a few GIs had been wounded or killed by 5.56 rounds, but it was probably by M16s that the enemy picked up. As for some vets claiming to have done it themselves, well, you may also be able to fire a 9mm round in a .45 ACP handgun sometimes, but it doesn't mean that it would be effective and the gun would function correctly (that's a big difference in bullet and bore diameter there).
 
A: It's a bull**** question.

84) Q: Does that mean that you can't answer it?

A: It's a bull**** question, it's impossible to answer.

85) Q: Impossible because you don't have the answer.

A: Nobody could answer that question

Prosecutor: Your honor, I move to disqualify Miss Vito as an expert witness.

86) Judge: Can you answer the question?

A: No, it is a trick question

Judge: Why is it a trick question

A: Cause Chevy didn't make a 327 in '55. The 327 didn't come out till '62, and it wasn't offered in a Bel-Air with a four-barrel carb 'til '64. However, in 1964 the correct ignition timing would be four degrees before top dead center.

Prosecutor: Well, uh, she's acceptable your honor.
 
I stated my thoughts, but just one step further, in 1994 I bought a G23, my buddy bought a G19, amoung other glocks. I could never shoot the 23 as well as his 19, neither could he, I could shoot the 45 and just about all the other calibers other than the 357sig, "which we didn't have" so it was pretty obvious to me at the time. Given the same pistol with several types of ammo, and both of us being very fit body builders in our 40's. Neither of us could shoot the 40 as well, and both of us had years of experience with shooting guns. The Glock 23 had a nasty twist to it upon firing it. And I carried a snubby 38 and walther for 20 years prior, and shot both of those just fine. The 45 always was an "easy" smooth shooter to me also and that's why I carry one now. I would never buy another 40. But that's why they make different colors.
 
My personal experience added here. I own a Glock G22 (.40 Cal) and been shooting it a while. Went to the range with a buddy that rented a Beretta 92 in 9mm. Now I already knew that design and materials have an effect on felt recoil.

Being used to a more "bulky" Glock, I shot the Beretta and to me it felt as different as a stubby revolver to a stout semi-auto. Beretta felt more snappy and less of a "push" than the Glock did.

Real ballistics aside the only way you can compare is doing what someone posted earlier. Get a Glock 19 and a Glock 22 and compare that way. Same construction, design and materials. Only difference variable is ammo weight and brand. Otherwise this is destined to be a chicken and egg argument for days to come.
 
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