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Shameless LP plug

Discussion in 'Legal' started by twoblink, Jul 12, 2004.

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  1. twoblink

    twoblink Member

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    If you are strictly a 2nd Amendment voter, then you should be voting LP this year. (and every year).

    http://www.badnarik.org/Issues/GunControl.php

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Gun Control Means Being Able to Hit your Target

    If I have a "hot button" issue, this is definitely it. Don't even THINK about taking my guns! My rights are not negotiable, and I am totally unwilling to compromise when it comes to the Second Amendment.

    Let me reiterate an axiom of my philosophy. Rights and privileges are polar opposites. A right is something that I can do without asking. A privilege is something that a higher authority allows me to do. It is utter nonsense for us to accept government permits in order to exercise an inalienable right. Allow me to point out some fallacies in the arguments frequently used by the anti-gun movement.

    First, it is impossible for the Second Amendment to confer a "community right", because communities HAVE no rights. Individuals are real. Communities are abstract concepts. You can have individuals without communities, but you cannot have communities without individuals. Ergo, individuals must come first, and only the individuals that make up a community can have rights.

    Second, the phrase "well regulated militia" is frequently misconstrued to mean:
    a) lots of government regulations; and,
    b) only the National Guard is allowed to carry guns.

    It is necessary to understand the definitions common in America during the time of our war for independence. "Well regulated" used to mean "well prepared". Every man was expected to have a rifle, one pound of gun powder, and sixteen balls for his weapon. He was also expected to be ready to USE that rifle within sixty seconds of the alarm being sounded. Hence the term "minute man".

    It is disingenuous for anyone to promote the argument that "militia" refers only to the National Guard in light of the fact that the Bill of Rights was ratified in 1791, and the National Guard wasn't formed until the early 1900's. This argument is totally without merit, unless you want to imply that our founding fathers were able to predict the future.

    I sincerely believe that statistical evidence supports the idea that crime increases exponentially wherever gun control is instituted as the governing policy. Washington DC, New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles have the strictest gun control policies in the United States. The cities with the highest murder rates are Washington DC, New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. It doesn't take a PhD to be able to draw the proper conclusion from this evidence. England and Australia have recently instituted strict gun control measures, and both countries have seen the statistics on violent crime quadruple. In contrast, I am told that the city of Kennesaw, Georgia passed a municipal ordinance that requires homeowners to have a firearm available. Home invasions have dropped to less than 10% of their original rate, indicating to me that criminals value their lives more than they value your property.

    I have no doubt that members of the anti-gun crowd would be happy to offer statistical data which appears to contradict the numbers I have just mentioned. Even if they could, their alternate statistics are not enough authority to strip me of my inalienable right to keep and bear arms. My rights are non-negotiable. I don't care if someone else doesn't like it. I don't care if they toss and turn at night, anxiously worried about what I might do with my firearm. My rights are not predicated on whether or not you LIKE what I'm doing. You only have a complaint when I present a "clear and present danger", which is not the case if I have my firearm in a holster.

    Repealing unconstitutional gun control laws will be one of my first priorities as President of the United States.

    I'm Michael Badnarik, Libertarian for President. I ask the tough questions---to give you answers that really work!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Repealing unconstitutional gun control laws will be one of my first priorities as President of the United States.

    This guy gets it.
     
  2. JCampGCO

    JCampGCO Member

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    Good Luck

    It seems that most of the people on this board are die hard, one track minded republicrats.

    Trying to get them to be open minded and vote libertarian is like trying to convince a brady bunch soccer mom moron that gun control doesn't work.

    FYI: I will be voting Libertarian for president and when kommrade Bush renews the AWB and takes away more of your rights with "patriot act" part three, I will have every right to yell and complain at those who voted for the "lesser of the two evils" because of the situation THEY created.

    The answer is clear, but yet these same people can't see beyond the tip of their nose.

    And enough of the complaining about the legalizing of non lethal drugs. Do any of you realize the income potential for the government if they regulated and taxed drugs like marijuana and hash? They could eliminated the federal income with the money they could make on these drugs. MJ and hash is about as dangerous some hillbilly guzzling down moonshine - another "drug" the government is too stupid to regulate and make money off of.
     
  3. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    Well, that's certainly one perspective. Another is that those of us who will be voting for Bush will actually making a difference, on the side of freedom, NOT responding in a knee-jerk fashion that only serves to gratify our egos and aid Herr Kerry and his socialist comrades.
     
  4. buy guns

    buy guns Member

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    i am sick of hearing people say a vote for someone other than bush is a vote for kerry. that is complete BS. you arent voting for kerry unless you mark his name on your ballot (or whatever electronic gizmo they use).

    the only way to get a third party into the white house is to actually vote for that person.

    whether or not you vote for kerry or bush, you are still voting in favor of gun control.
     
  5. fix

    fix Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly. If you vote specifically on the 2nd Amendment, and ONLY on the 2nd Amendment, you should vote Libertarian...err...wait. The Constitution Party has essentially the same stance.

    :neener:
     
  6. ProGlock

    ProGlock Member

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    I'm voting for Badnarik.

    btw, I just noticed on Badnarik's website they have a new video online that shows his responses during the libertarian primary debates. Definitely worth watching because that guy is awesome on PR.
     
  7. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    It doesn't really matter whether or not you lie hearing it, it is a question of reality. NO 3rd-party candidate will win. Period. End of story. Ergo, any vote not for Bush is a vote which will help Kerry win the presidency. Exactly what he wants. In fact, I wouldn't doubt that Badnarik is a closet dem working in the background to help pull votes from Bush.
    Oh, sure, there is no difference between the two when it comes to guns. :rolleyes: That is, if you ignore the fact that he has an AG that has voiced his opinion that the 2nd Amendment is an individualright, not a collective right. And if you ignore the fact that no significant gun control legislation has been signed into law under his administration. And if you ignore the fact that Bush has thumbed his nose at UN efforts to have worldwide gun confiscation. And if you ignore the fact that while as governor he signed legislation in Texas that gave us the legal right to CCW. And if you gnore the fact that Kerry has advocated and voted for every piece of gun control that has made its across his desk. And if you ignore...........oh, never mind, facts don't seem to make any difference to you.
     
  8. fix

    fix Member

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    I'd still like to hear why the Constitution Party isn't advocated over the Libertarian Party, given the context of the quoted statement.

    Libertarian Party Stance

    Constitution Party Stance
     
  9. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    The guy who I have only seen in a tri-cornered hat and knee-high breeches carrying an AR15 with a scope on the carry handle is good at PR eh? Good for who? ;)
     
  10. ProGlock

    ProGlock Member

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    Good in terms of an image for the libertarian party as a whole and what the party stands for.

    I looked at Peroutka's platform but I very much disagree with his continued use of religion in his campaign (or anyone's campaign for that matter). Some issues he elaborated on were not explained in great detail either. I know he means well, and his 2nd amendment stance is top notch, but it just isn't there for me.
     
  11. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    I really wish some of you folks that support Badnarik could hear him in person. I have. I have talked to him in person. He gets a deer-in-the-headlights look when you ask him hard questions. He makes Bush look positively professorial.
     
  12. buy guns

    buy guns Member

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    of course they wont because everyone has this same attitude.

    yes thats very true but has he done anything to get rid of the pointless gun laws we already have?
     
  13. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    So now your argument is that Bush is as bad as Kerry because while he hasn't signed new legislation into law, he won't work to overturn existing gun-control laws, the very same laws that will pale in comparison to the ones that Kerry will sign?
    No, they won't win because most voters don't support them, and the ones that do only serve to hurt the two-party candidate that most closely aligns with their views.
     
  14. bigmtnman

    bigmtnman Member

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    AaaaH, POLITICS!
    Nothing it seems can get folks' dander up more than POLITICS.
    One of the things we can still enjoy, in this country, is our freedom to vote for whomever you wish. Vote for Bush, vote for Kerry, vote for Badnarik, vote for Nader, vote for Donald Duck or Porky Pig if you want. Just exercize your right to vote. Waste your vote, vote to block, vote your conscience, vote third party, whatever, just vote!
    If enough people would eventually vote libertarian, we would never have to vote again. No government, no politics.
    Government is government, no matter who's in power. Hail! to the new boss - same as the old boss!!
     
  15. Glock Glockler

    Glock Glockler Member

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    Well, that's certainly one perspective. Another is that those of us who will be voting for Bush will actually making a difference, on the side of freedom, NOT responding in a knee-jerk fashion that only serves to gratify our egos and aid Herr Kerry and his socialist comrades.

    Suppose one is in a state that is not a swing state, a vote for Badnarik will essentially carry the same weight as a vote for Bush to one who is not in a swing state.

    Someone in CA who votes for badnarik is then having as much of an effect as someone who votes for Bush: Zero, because neither one will win that state. I'd also like to know how Bush is such a champion for freedom, cause he just looks like another big govt supporter from this angle.
     
  16. fix

    fix Member

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    Ahhh, you admit that you vote on more than one issue!!!

    This thread is not for you. Move along now...:D

    Still waiting for the answer.
     
  17. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "Trying to get them to be open minded and vote libertarian is like trying to convince a brady bunch soccer mom moron that gun control doesn't work."

    Sonny, I was attending meetings and voting LP before you were born. Insulting folks or putting them down is not a good way to convert them to your cause.

    Meanwhile, the LP has been going nowhere since the '70s.

    John
     
  18. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    Thank you, John.

    I would also say that IMO the reason the LP has remained essentially a political joke is that they do not pursue local races enough; rather, they always concentrate their energies on the big enchilada. Pepole have no idea what the LP stands for because they only hear about them every four years, usually in the same reference as the Communist Party of America.
     
  19. twoblink

    twoblink Member

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    My voting state is the PRK.. :barf:

    I don't think Bush has a prayer in that state, and so voting for Bush is a vote against the libertarian party, who has just as much chance in the PRK.

    I'm actually a registered Republican, but I always vote Libertarian, because of an article I read about 3 brothers.

    A dad died and he had 3 sons and a company, and so each son got 33.3% stake of the company. The young one, being the smart one, wanted to start his own company, but didn't want to not have a say in the company. So he sold all but 2% of his stake to his brothers.

    The first brother had 49%,
    The second brother had 49%,
    The third had 2%.

    The company required 51% to pass anything, and so basically, anytime two brothers agreeded, they would override the 3rd. The beauty of this was, the 3rd brother had basically equal weight as far as deciding whether something would get passed or not, despite the fact that he only had 2%.

    If a libertarian party got 6% of the votes, they wouldn't win, but if the jackasses got 47%, and the dumbo's got 47%, then both sides would have to try to woo the libertarians (at least half of them) over to their platform by giving up certain things or promising certain things. This is how you influence politics.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I vote my principles so I can sleep at night.

    If you want to pick a winner, go to the horse races.

    If you want to pick a party with principles, go vote for the libertarian party.

    Republicrats? What have they done? Ahnold and Bush haven't done squat to lower taxes and decrease government and they never will.

    Remember folks, just because it says FICA in black and there's no - sign in front of it, it's still a DEDUCTION.

    If you like paying taxes and giving away your hard earned dollars so congress can play ken and barbie, that's fine, then vote for the blues or reds.

    But you can try this year, instead of voting for the "lesser of the two evils" to vote for the good.
     
  20. JCampGCO

    JCampGCO Member

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    JohnBT

    And putting words in one's mouth will...

    I never named names or pointed fingers specifically to anyone, nor did I use metaphors directed towards any one person.

    I made a collective statement...old man....
     
  21. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    Twoblink,

    Your analogy is valid only for the Congress and for those races, I say fine. I would actually like to see more LP members in the House. BUT, for the presidency, the LP will never win and it is afterall, a total win or lose proposition. There is not a 3rd (or even 2nd) brother sharing power in the Oval Office. It is absolutely essential that Kerry not win this year. The consequences would make Bush seem like Ayn Rand in comparison.
     
  22. ReadyontheRight

    ReadyontheRight Member

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    No...the ones that Kerry will CHAMPION.
     
  23. ReadyontheRight

    ReadyontheRight Member

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    John BT -- You are dead-on accurate in your assessment.

    I'm an old LP voter myself. I'm sure I'll do it again, but not this time.
     
  24. Desertdog

    Desertdog Member

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    Getting a Libertarian to register as a Republican and running with Libertarian ideas and beliefs, where they may actually be elected, seems to be almost as hard. It will work and so why not try it?

    This also applies to the Constitutional Party.

    You are guaranteed not not do any worse than you are now, and I would vote for them.

    I do not believe in voting for someone that is guaranteed to lose. If they are going to lose, why waste my time?
     
  25. JCampGCO

    JCampGCO Member

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    Tis a good idea. If we can't vote them out, then we will "breed" them out.
     
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