Sharing some 357sig test data

[vaalpens]

I have not done much new load development in 357sig lately, so I decided to add some additional test data for 357sig.

Firstly I tested some additional V-Crown loads to verify accuracy for an existing load, and also see if I can find another accuracy node at higher velocities. What I found was that my existing load of 7.8gr BE-86 is still the most accurate for V-Crown, but fell short of my most accurate loads in 357sig. It is only my 15th most accurate load tested in 357sig, so it seems I still have some work to do:

Please note that these were tested at 15 yards, using a rest, and a scope that wasn't zeroed.


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: FC(n)
COL: 1.125"
Sierra, 125gr, VCROWNJHP, BE86, 7.8gr, CCI500
Average: 1261
ES: 25
SD: 9.1
Force: 441
PF: 157
Velocities: 1248, 1259, 1273, 1262, 1265
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.9"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: FC(n)
COL: 1.125"
Sierra, 125gr, VCROWNJHP, BE86, 7.9gr, CCI500
Average: 1267
ES: 33
SD: 13.4
Force: 445
PF: 158
Velocities: 1282, 1279, 1267, 1262, 1249
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.27"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: FC(n)
COL: 1.125"
Sierra, 125gr, VCROWNJHP, BE86, 8gr, CCI500
Average: 1269
ES: 20
SD: 7.8
Force: 447
PF: 158
Velocities: 1267, 1262, 1272, 1265, 1282
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.21"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: FC(n)
COL: 1.125"
Sierra, 125gr, VCROWNJHP, BE86, 8.1gr, CCI500
Average: 1278
ES: 22
SD: 7.8
Force: 453
PF: 159
Velocities: 1280, 1289, 1267, 1279, 1278
Grouping @ 15yd: 2"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

Secondly I tested some CFE Pistol loads. The reason for this test was to reevaluate CFE-P in 357sig, see how it compares to BE-86, and maybe try it with the V-Crown bullet if I notice some good accuracy at higher velocity. Initial impression seems to show that good accuracy will be there at higher velocities. Maybe next time around I will try CFE Pistol with the V-Crown bullet:

Please note that these were tested at 15 yards, using a rest, and a scope that wasn't zeroed.

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, CFEpistol, 7.2gr, CCI500
Average: 1236
ES: 21
SD: 8.1
Force: 421
PF: 153
Velocities: 1238, 1244, 1241, 1236, 1223
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.15"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, CFEpistol, 7.3gr, CCI500
Average: 1251
ES: 22
SD: 9.3
Force: 431
PF: 155
Velocities: 1249, 1268, 1246, 1247, 1247
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.19"
Test Date: 10/21/2018


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, CFEpistol, 7.4gr, CCI500
Average: 1276
ES: 17
SD: 6.4
Force: 448
PF: 158
Velocities: 1277, 1273, 1267, 1279, 1284
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.84"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, CFEpistol, 7.5gr, CCI500
Average: 1273
ES: 29
SD: 12.3
Force: 446
PF: 157
Velocities: 1279, 1288, 1262, 1278, 1259
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.45"
Test Date: 10/21/2018


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, CFEpistol, 7.6gr, CCI500
Average: 1285
ES: 22
SD: 8.1
Force: 455
PF: 159
Velocities: 1297, 1275, 1282, 1287, 1288
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.81"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 124gr, FMJFN, CFEpistol, 7.7gr, CCI500
Average: 1304
ES: 14
SD: 5.3
Force: 468
PF: 161
Velocities: 1299, 1304, 1302, 1313, 1302
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.12"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

 

[Dudedog]

Nice write up as always, I appreciate the time and effort it takes to post the info for all of us!

 

[vaalpens]

Nice write as always, I appreciate the time and effort it takes to post the info for all of us!

Thanks Dudedog!

It seems like the 357sig reloading community is on the small side, so hopefully by sharing some load/test data, other reloaders will be enticed to join the 357sig reloading community.

 

[Dudedog]

On my list of things to buy when I move to a state that does not have an "Approved Handgun" list.

 

[quaid]

Those are some really tight numbers, sd and es.

Is 357 sig a roll crimp? What do you use for a powder drop? You have some very consistent numbers there.

 

[Blue68f100]

Good consistent rounds... But

Why are you getting horizontal stringing in some and not others? Did something loosen up on the scope mount? Or parallax issue with the scope at such a close range.

 

[vaalpens]

On my list of things to buy when I move to a state that does not have an "Approved Handgun" list.

From a bullet perspective you should be good to go since you already shoot the RMR MPR bullets. They work very good in 357sig.

 

[vaalpens]

Those are some really tight numbers, sd and es.

Is 357 sig a roll crimp? What do you use for a powder drop? You have some very consistent numbers there.

I use the Lee FCD which is not a roll crimp. There is a lot discussion around where a 357sig headspace, but both SAAMI and CIP indicates that it headspace on the case mouth.

When I do load workup I always use a Lee dipper, RCBS trickler and Ohaus 505 scale. For 357sig I also sort by headstamp and case length. Lately I have also only used the larger flash hole cases, just to remove another variable. Normally 357sig shows better SD/ES numbers due to it being a high pressure round.

 

[vaalpens]

Good consistent rounds... But

Why are you getting horizontal stringing in some and not others? Did something loosen up on the scope mount? Or parallax issue with the scope at such a close range.

I wish I could explain the horizontal stringing. I see it once in a while but haven't been able to put my finger on the root cause. This is the first time somebody mentioned parallax as a possible cause. I think I just need to be more attentive in the future in how I line up my eye with the scope.

 

[george d dennis]

Thanks for a great test. I reload 357sig and use AA#9 and get good accuracy with nosler bullets.

 

[Patocazador]

Thanks for the data. I like CFE-P for several calibers. I use it and Longshot the most in .357 Sig.

 

[vaalpens]

Thanks for a great test. I reload 357sig and use AA#9 and get good accuracy with nosler bullets.

Thanks for the kind words. I checked my records and I did a 357sig test with a Nosler 124gr JHP bullet in 2015. I tested a limited number of bullets at the time. My recollection is that the bullet is a good fit for 357sig and tested well. Following is the only test data I have from the time:

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.120"
Nosler, 124gr, JHP, PowerPistol, 7.9gr, CCI500
Average: 1306
ES: 35
SD: 11.9
Force: 470
PF: 161
Velocities: 1282, 1313, 1298, 1314, 1314, 1317, 1312, 1302
Grouping @ N/A
Test Date: 12/28/2015

 

[vaalpens]

Thanks for the data. I like CFE-P for several calibers. I use it and Longshot the most in .357 Sig.

Thanks.

I have used CFE-P and Longshot in 357sig. I actually just received some 147gr bullets from Dudedog (will be another thread) and is planning to use CFE-P with the 147gr bullet. One of my best groupings I have seen with 357sig was using CFE-P and a plated 147gr bullet, go figure. RMR does not sell these plated bullets anymore. Following is the load I used. You will see that I kept the velocities on the lower end since plated bullets start losing some accuracy at higher velocities:

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
RMR, 147gr, HMHPRR, CFEpistol, 5.5gr, CCI500
Average: 1002
ES: 20
SD: 7.5
Force: 328
PF: 147
Velocities: 993, 999, 1006, 1003, 1013
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.521"
Test Date: 12/09/2017

With Longshot I am not actually chasing very good accuracy, but It did produce decent groupings at 15 yards, close to max.

I am listing my load data since it is below the maximum Hodgdon load data. I will probably not go any higher or much higher since my COL is less than the 1.135" listed by Hodgdon.

Please note that this load is safe in my gun, and does not mean it is safe in your gun. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, MPRJHP, Longshot, 9.1gr, GINEXSP
Average: 1397
ES: 110
SD: 42
Force: 537
PF: 173
Velocities: 1402, 1410, 1458, 1348, 1370
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.1"
Test Date: 07/25/2017

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, Longshot, 9.2gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1444
ES: 53
SD: 21.1
Force: 574
PF: 179
Velocities: 1436, 1413, 1466, 1447, 1460
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.63" +
Test Date: 04/21/2017

 

[JimKirk]

357sig headspaces on the shoulder, so a roll crimp should work.

While roll crimp may work ... a taper crimp is a better crimp for the 357 SIG ... most suitable SIG bullets do not have a crimp groove ... so a taper crimp is best .... Since the neck area that hold the bullet is so short ... all of it is needed to hold the bullet ...

 

[vaalpens]

While roll crimp may work ... a taper crimp is a better crimp for the 357 SIG ... most suitable SIG bullets do not have a crimp groove ... so a taper crimp is best .... Since the neck area that hold the bullet is so short ... all of it is needed to hold the bullet ...

JimKirk, thanks for clarifying the use of roll crimp in 357sig. I probably should have stated "could work" instead of "should work" since I have never tried a roll crimp. 357sig Roll crimp normally comes up during 357sig shoulder vs mouth headspace discussions/topics.

 

[fxvr5]

I use the Lee FCD which is not a roll crimp. I have seen some test data using a roll crimp. 357sig headspaces on the shoulder, so a roll crimp should work.

When I do load workup I always use a Lee dipper, RCBS trickler and Ohaus 505 scale. For 357sig I also sort by headstamp and case length. Lately I have also only used the larger flash hole cases, just to remove another variable. Normally 357sig shows better SD/ES numbers due to it being a high pressure round.

According to SAAMI, 357 Sig headspaces on the case mouth.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Z299-3_ANSI-SAAMI_CFPandR.pdf

 

[fxvr5]

Good consistent rounds... But

Why are you getting horizontal stringing in some and not others?

They're 5-shot groups. Don't read to much into them. You'll see random group patterns even when shooting 5-shot groups with the same ammo.

 

[vaalpens]

According to SAAMI, 357 Sig headspaces on the case mouth.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Z299-3_ANSI-SAAMI_CFPandR.pdf

You are correct. I have seen many of the following type quotes and believed it is either one of them:

Headspacing
The .357 Sig is supposed to headspace on the case mouth or on the shoulder, depending on who you believe. Some of the reloading manuals (Lyman 49th Edition for example) say that it headspaces on the mouth. The C.I.P. (think of them as the European version of SAAMI) says that it headspaces on the shoulder. My experience has been that it depends on the gun. Some chambers are so long that it's clear that the cartridge is going to headspace on the shoulder no matter what.

But looking at the actual CIP document http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/uploads/tdcc/tab-iv/tabivcal-en-page53.pdf , it also specifies that 357sig headspace on the case mouth.

Thanks, I will update my previous post.

 

[Bottom Gun]

I don't crimp, nor do I flare the case mouth. I chamfer the case mouth and rely solely upon neck tension to hold the bullet in place. That has worked very well for me and have never had a bullet setback.

 

[vaalpens]

I don't crimp, nor do I flare the case mouth. I chamfer the case mouth and rely solely upon neck tension to hold the bullet in place. That has worked very well for me and have never had a bullet setback.

Thanks for sharing another good methodology to follow. I have seen this mentioned a few times, and it must obviously work. Maybe I will try it on a few cases on of these days and see how it work for me. I assume with the chamfering of the cases that you loose some neck tension purely due to the removal of some brass.

 

[Bottom Gun]

It's a light chamfer so the loss of bearing surface is insignificant. Just enough to get the bullet started when I seat it.

 

[Bottom Gun]

I'm thinking that even a taper crimp may spring a bit of the case mouth away from the bullet's bearing surface and lessen neck tension. With the chamfer, I am able to utilize all of the bearing surface for bullet retention. At least that's my theory.

 

[JimKirk]

I don't crimp, nor do I flare the case mouth. I chamfer the case mouth and rely solely upon neck tension to hold the bullet in place. That has worked very well for me and have never had a bullet setback.

This is the method I described in a way earlier thread .... It results in the best neck tension as far as I can determine.

 

[vaalpens]

This is the method I described in a way earlier thread .... It results in the best neck tension as far as I can determine.

If JimKirk say it results in the best neck tension, then I am sold. I will create a few dummy rounds my way and the chamfer way and put them through my cycle/setback/scale test. I will report back with my test results.

 

[fxvr5]

If JimKirk say it results in the best neck tension, then I am sold. I will create a few dummy rounds my way and the chamfer way and put them through my cycle/setback/scale test. I will report back with my test results.

Keep in mind that different brands of brass might have different case wall thickness, which will result in different amounts of neck tension, and the results can be different for that reason.