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Sharpening a bayo lowers the collector value?

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow, Dec 28, 2009.

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  1. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    True? That's like saying cleaning a rifle's bore (making it primed and ready for use) lowers its value - to me anyway. Oh well, I'm guilty of this in any event.
     
  2. Beelzy

    Beelzy Member

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    True.....sharpening a dull Bayo is like cleaning the tarnish off an old coin.

    Not good for $$$$

    On a side note, Bayos were left dull on purpose to make a nasty leaky hole. So much so
    that certain military units during WWII would court martial soldiers for putting edges on
    them.
     
  3. Broken11b

    Broken11b Member

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    I can see it lowering the value a little bit. Military bayonets are supposed to be dull-ish. razor sharp blades allow the wound channel to close after the bayonet is removed. dull bayonets cause more damage. And dull is how they were made and issued. However, as long as youre not grinding down the blade to a fraction of what it used to be, theres nothing wrong with the clean lines on an inspection ready bayonet.
     
  4. gun addict

    gun addict Member

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    yup, bayonets were never meant to be shaprened like combat knifes, sharpening them would definately devalue them
     
  5. DAVIDSDIVAD

    DAVIDSDIVAD member

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    Allow me to kindly point out that this is BS.

    An extremely sharp bayonet is going to be able to separate more tissue via smooth cutting than a dull bayonet would be able to rip, and the more tissue you separate, the more bleeding occurs.

    A good stabbing via bayonet is simply a good stabbing. I'm not sure a few extra ml of blood is going to make any difference at all.

    Silly billies :rolleyes:
     
  6. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

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    Sharp is no doubt better than dull as far as it being an offensive weapon goes but "original condition" is what collectors of such things like.
     
  7. JoergS

    JoergS Member

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    Most collectors want things as original as possible. Ideally, the bayo still is in the original grease and accompanied by the original issue paperwork.

    I think even restoring a collector's item will reduce the value in most cases. I have seen some (really only a handful) restoration jobs, done by experts, that are an exception. The restoration needs to be visible, so you see what part is original and what is the work of the craftsman.

    Most bayos don't have much value anyway, but can make great tools and weapons. In this case it doesn't matter what you do to it. Put an edge on it, shorten it, attach a different handle. That is the charm of surplus weapons.

    Greetings

    Jörg
     
  8. Todd A

    Todd A Member

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    Yes..If you sharpen a bayonet it will loose value. A "period correct" (a topic that could fill a book) sharpened bayonet is still valueable for most collectors.


    You can send me every sharpened WWI German bayonet you come across.:D

    Whether a bayonet is suposed to be sharp depends on its era,and which country issued it. In the above case Germany expected the issuing depot,or soldier, to sharpen the bayonets at time of issue.Finding a WWI German bayonet that has not been sharpened is a great find.
     
  9. Smokey Joe

    Smokey Joe Member

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    Sharpening vs. cleaning...

    Dr. Tad--You said
    May I respectfully disagree--it's not the same thing. When you clean a rifle's bore you don't change anything about the original make-up of the rifle--you merely remove cosmoline/powder fouling/spiderwebs/what have you. When you sharpen a vintage bayonet that you bought unsharpened, you are removing some of the bayonet's metal, i.e. fundamentally changing it.

    As noted above, collectors like things in original condition--the more original, and the more documentation, the better. If the bayo in question is in any way a "collectors' item" I'd urge you to leave the edge alone--just clean the cosmoline off it, but not enough to damage whatever finish it has. Now, OTOH, if the bayo in question is one you want to USE for something, as opposed to just COLLECTING it, then sharpen away, modify as you please.

    Last time I looked, there was no sign in front of MY house, anyway, saying "Smokey Joe's Museum." With a very few exceptions, something I can't actually use I don't keep. But that's me. There are plenty of people out there who ARE running their own museum, and those people are what make "collector value" into a meaningful phrase.
     
  10. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    I've been thinking about ordering a surplus bayonet -- about $20 -- and sharpening it to use for a knife. Will they even take and keep an edge, or are they made from soft tough steel? I think the ones I was looking at online were from Victorinox.
     
  11. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Bayonets generally make poor knives.

    They are almost always very thick in the spine, with a thick taper to the edge to give them strength.

    They don't cut or slice like a good knife even if sharpened, because they are just too thick.

    rc
     
  12. DAVIDSDIVAD

    DAVIDSDIVAD member

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    RC is right.

    However, they can be made into great stuff.

    I've got a Turkish M1935 that I turned into a mean thing with the help of a belt sander, and a lot of patience.
     
  13. Beelzy

    Beelzy Member

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    Uh no.

    A clean cut from a sharp knife can close itself and one bleeds less. The reverse applies
    to a dull blade.
     
  14. CWL

    CWL Member

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    Really?

    So swords, spears, fighting knives should be duller to work better? The Samurai were horrible weapons-makers? Pakistan makes the best knives? Too sharp, and the guy you just gut-stabbed will get back up and smile at you?

    Amazing what some people will believe...
     
  15. elmerfudd

    elmerfudd Member

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    Wait a second, I saw on Pawn Stars that an antique gun is worth double if you can actually fire it. There's no way they'd just do that for TV is there? After all, I know that if I were laying down $3000 for an antique Brown Bess, I'd want to know that some fat hillbilly had loaded it up and pulled the trigger.
     
  16. DAVIDSDIVAD

    DAVIDSDIVAD member

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    How exactly does a cleanly cut wound magically close itself?

    I mean, according to the physiology classes I've taken, there's no such thing as a "super fast clotting factor for clean cuts."

    Are you proposing that the flesh slaps closed and re-seals itself like play dough? If so, please allow me to LOL heartily in your general direction.


    The sharper edge is able to cut more tissue (and more blood vessels) with less force than the dull edge.
     
  17. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I agree completely.

    Nothing scares me worse then a cut from a razor sharp knife or broad-head arrow.
    Because you simply can't get it to stop bleeding.

    Bleeding from a cut from a dull blade is easily stopped because a lot of the veins & tissue are already crushed shut and the blood clots easily.

    rc
     
  18. FRJ

    FRJ Member

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    I'm sorry but all this crap about a dull blade leaving a better wound channel than a sharp one is just that CRAP!!!!!!! A dull blade will actually push blood vessels out of the way as well as internal organs. A razor sharp blade on the other hand cuts on contact and creates a wound that wont stop bleeding due to the fact that the components that are necessary to cause the blood to coagulate are not activated in a smooth wound. If you bought it to use it sharpen it. If you bought it to look at it don't waste your time sharpening.FRJ
     
  19. gun addict

    gun addict Member

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    not true on Bayonets not being collectible, a good M39 bayonet or rare Gewher 98 butcher blade bayonet would fetch in alot of money
     
  20. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    That guy must not have priced U.S. WWII bayonets lately!!!!

    Some of the really good & unsharpened ones from rare manufactures are worth more then the rifle or carbine they went on!

    Sharpened, not so much!

    rc
     
  21. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Well, the two that I sharpened are both British 1907s. I bought them for actual use as short swords / dirks, as last ditch self-defense of the homestead here. To me, an unsharpened knife is as useless at teets on a boar hog.

    I don't know what king of hare-brained doctrines about dull bayos that some military commanders may have come up with, but I guarantee that I want mine SHARP - sharp cuts, sharp stabs; sharp penetrates easily; dull does none of the above.

    In any event, I guess I lowered the value significantly, which is a bit of a shame, since these can run upwards of $75 at times, but hey, I bought them to use and play with, not store gathering dust for years then re-sell, so to each his own I guess. However, doubt I'll sharpen any more.
     
  22. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I would expect knife nuts have a complusion to sharpen things. ;)

    However guys, you remove that dull square edge on your original bayonet, you have removed a whole bunch of collector value.

    The same thing for swords. The military dulled their swords between wars, to avoid/reduce training accidents.

    A pre WWII Cavalry trooper told me of a training fatality during sword practice. They carried the Patton saber. A trooper fell off his horse, and lost control of his sword. It might have been attached with a sword knot . As the trooper fell, the point ended up under the guy’s armpit. When the trooper hit the ground, the sword impaled the poor guy.

    In the Oxford book on military short stories, there is a personal account from a General reminiscing on his early career.

    As a junior officer in the cavalry, he was so enthusiastic/bellicose he sharpened his sword.

    First day mounted sword practice, he cut off the ear of his horse.

    Oops!

    My Dad brought back Japanese bayonets, they were sharp. I think they were issued sharp.
     
  23. CWL

    CWL Member

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    Japanese soldiers used live prisoners for bayonet practice...
     
  24. gun addict

    gun addict Member

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    they used alot more than just prisoners for bayonet practice
     
  25. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    ...like Phillipino civilians.
     
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