She Cried Rape: No One Helped. WWYD?

[Gamera]

Well first let me say that since this took place in NYC I would not have been carrying, I don't advocate carrying where it is illegal (except in very certain circumstances). Let me also say that I tend to mind my own business. If two people want to get into a fist fight, then I say let them (I'm not going to call the cops on them). All that being said, had I happened upon the situation in question, I would have beat the you-know-what out of that guy THEN called the police once he was no longer a threat.

 

[Bronx]

Green grass, and fresh air, are in my future. All in all though, life isn't bad. I wouldn't trade the last 20 years for anything.

 

[Apachedriver]

All in all though, life isn't bad. I wouldn't trade the last 20 years for anything.

In the end, if one can say that about their life, regardless where it is, that's all that really matters.

Cheers

 

[Deanimator]

Look I'm not trying to convince you to move to NYC. What I will tell you is you have an extraordinarily skewed opinion of what life is like here, but hey, you're entitled to that.

My view of New York City is 100% accurate. You yourself haven't denied what I've said. They accept no legal responsibility for your protection and prevent you from protecting yourself. What part of that is incorrect?

The way of life is skewed, not my perception of it.

It's a great city. The sheer ability to educate yourself due to exposure to all kinds of experiences is enormous. The business opportunities are tremendous.

People have different definitions of "greatness". I can never even consider a place which enforces victimization "decent", nevermind "great".

New York City embodies a way of life which I find utterly abhorrent. Somebody who forbids me from protecting myself is paternalistic. Somebody who then refuses to provide that protection for me is evil.

I've been to New York City. There isn't a single thing there which I would trade my right to self-defense to have. But then there's no place on earth where I'd make that devil's bargain.

 

[Bronx]

In the end, if one can say that about their life, regardless where it is, that's all that really matters.

You fly Apaches? I used to fix Tomcats.

Tejas definitely has the corner on steak. I love the BBQ. I hate to say it, but I will take a bowl of Colorado green over Texas red.........

 

[Bronx]

My view of New York City is 100% accurate. You yourself haven't denied what I've said. They accept no legal responsibility for your protection and prevent you from protecting yourself. What part of that is incorrect?

The way of life is skewed, not my perception of it.


Quote:
It's a great city. The sheer ability to educate yourself due to exposure to all kinds of experiences is enormous. The business opportunities are tremendous.

People have different definitions of "greatness". I can never even consider a place which enforces victimization "decent", nevermind "great".

New York City embodies a way of life which I find utterly abhorrent. Somebody who forbids me from protecting myself is paternalistic. Somebody who then refuses to provide that protection for me is evil.

I've been to New York City. There isn't a single thing there which I would trade my right to self-defense to have. But then there's no place on earth where I'd make that devil's bargain.

So now my lack of denial of what I construe as your self fabricated delusion qualifies as an endorsement of your belief?

That's a leap. Like I said, you're entitled to your bone. No quarrel from me.

Nobody forbids me from protecting myself or my family here. Devil's bargain? Melodramatic.

I don't believe in the devil personally.

To each their own they say.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Hey, Martin From The Bronx: This is your friend

he keeps you from cluttering up the thread

I feel you make a good point.

How many of us operating under the assumption that we must be armed to intervene?

Studies of group dynamics show that if one person would be the first to come to the aid of a victim, others are very likely to follow.

Just food for thought.

Thanks,
DFW1911

Very true; I think God made me 6'3" for a reason.

A couple of things to consider.

To Carl: Saying you would absolutely jump in is a bad idea. There is a VERY short list of people I would use deadly force to defend. I've even left some family members off this list. (Due to a long history of irresponsible behavior on their part.) The guy who taught my CCW class told a story (I have absolutely no idea how true it is, but it does make one think,) about a new CCW holder who was on the street one night, and he saw a couple leaving a bar in a fight. the man pushed the woman into an alley as she struggled against him. He moved to the front of the alley to see the man with his pants down on top of the woman struggling. He pulled out his pistol and removed the top of the bad guy's head. When he went limp on top of her, the guy went to help her and as she was getting up, she yelled at him; "You idiot!! We were playing a sex game!! Why did you shoot him?!"

The reality is, many victims of sexual assault will (for the same reason they often don't report the crime,) deny that they were being assaulted and leave YOU on the hook to explain why you had to kill someone. If you yell at them to stop, and that you are talking to the police, while being ready to protect YOURSELF, you will both help the victim and cover your butt. Any action you take beyond that is off the reservation and you're on your own.

The MTA guys probably followed procedure to the letter. We can be upset that the metro cops' response time was so bad, but remember the first general order? "I will guard everything within my post and leave my post ONLY when properly relieved."? The operator of that train has a first responsibility to the passengers of that train. His jumping off the train to stop something he sees OUTSIDE of that train would be just like me leaving my kids in a car idling on the side of the road to go chase a bank robber on foot. The fact that BOTH employees did the exact same thing shows a good understanding of and compliance with MTA policies on the part of the employees. My only experience with the city metro cops is watching "Money Train", where they make it look like the whole system is crawling with cops. The reality is that it's like any other law enforcement setup. They can't be everywhere, they are not liable, you are on your own to protect yourself, and New York won't let you.

When is it ever a good idea to shoot first and ask questions later?

 

[Apachedriver]

Tomcats huh...too bad they retired them...I felt my age when I read about them doing that.

Yeah, I've been flying them 17 years now.

I haven't been to Colorado yet. Don't know why but I've got this liberal tree hugging perception about that place. I don't know where I got that from.

But Texas, this is freedom to me. I wouldn't mind some mountains though. If Texas ever left the Union, I'd be just fine staying here. We got everything down here. Food, Culture, RKBA and self defense, and lots of wide open spaces with fresh air. NYC is a hell of a city, but I'll never go back even if they let Bloomberg and his cronies all croaked and they said I could have guns.

 

[Bronx]

Hey David,

I'm used to this kind of forum but for whatever reason I haven't figured out the particular quirks associated with editing here......I'm new, and I'll hopefully get the hang of it!

 

[Bronx]

Apache,

Funny that you said that about Tomcats. When I heard they'd retired them first thing I though of was how old I felt. I did get the chance to help bore-site the bird on more than one occasion. My Brother is a Navy LT, nuke on a sub.

I really love New England as far as where I'm going next. I need to check out the Pacific Northwest a bit more though.

(Ok....I think I've drifted this thread far enough...sorry)

 

[Geronimo45]

When is it ever a good idea to shoot first and ask questions later?

When the guy you're going to shoot is actively armed. Gun in hand, for instance. The time it takes to pivot and fire is shorter than the time it takes to pivot, draw, and fire.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

When the guy you're going to shoot is actively armed. Gun in hand, for instance. The time it takes to pivot and fire is shorter than the time it takes to pivot, draw, and fire.

Well, I'd probably want to ask the guy why he has more than 2 arms if he can rape a woman and point a gun at me at the same time.

 

[Deanimator]

Nobody forbids me from protecting myself or my family here. Devil's bargain? Melodramatic.

Do you own a handgun?
Do you have a concealed carry credential of some kind?
Are you a cop?
If you have and or carry a handgun, how much money did you spend to own and or carry a handgun, over and above the price of the gun?
What are the criteria for the granting of a premise handgun license in NYC?
What are the criteria for the granting of a CCW credential in NYC?

Nobody forbids you from protecting yourself and your family? Nobody "forbids" me from owning a business jet. In NYC, I could likely afford one as the other. In NYC, some lives have more value than others, and an appropriate price is assigned to the ability to protect those lives.

I don't believe in the devil personally.

It's an expression. I'm an agnostic.

 

[Fred Fuller]

OK, folks- keep it on topic, and keep it High Road, or it's gone.

lpl

 

[Devon]

I don't have to wonder if I'd get involved, I've done just that. About 15 yrs. ago I lived just outside the thriving metropolis of Manhattan, Ks. I was outside just after dark and heard a woman's voice screaming "get off me, leave me alone!" over and over. I went into the house, told my wife to call the sheriff, tell them what I had heard and that I would be going to find out what was going on. I also told her to be very clear with the 911 operator that I was armed, this was pre-ccw in Kansas. I drove over so I would have some light and found a man holding a tire iron straddling a woman that was laying on the ground. I told him in my best military voice to get off of her and get on the ground. He looked at me and back at her said something along the lines of "Great, you got the cops involved." I told him that I wasn't the police, that's when he turned to me with the tire iron and started making some threats, both verbal and physical. I presented my weapon, a Ruger .357, and told him he should comply with my orders. Frankly I dreaded the thought of actually shooting the guy, but had he taken one more step toward me or her I would have. He then turned and ran away into the night. I didn't even think about chasing off after him in the dark, that'd just be stupid. The Sheriff's officers arrived within a couple of minutes, took my report, the ambulance arrived and transported the lady to the hospital. The only funny thing about the whole event was the Highway Patrol trooper that showed up wanted the Sheriff's deputy to disarm me. The deputy just looked at him and said, "He's not the problem here."
The guy had beat her pretty badly, she divorced him, and he went for extended stay courtesy of the State of Kansas.

Do it again, darn right, it's the right thing to do, anyone that thinks otherwise is just wrong.

Devon

 

[Bronx]

Do you own a handgun?

I've owned two, none at the present and a .357 is in my near future. I do own various rifles, and a shotgun.

Do you have a concealed carry credential of some kind?

Nope

Are you a cop?

Nope

If you have and or carry a handgun, how much money did you spend to own and or carry a handgun, over and above the price of the gun?

Too much.

What are the criteria for the granting of a premise handgun license in NYC?

No felonies.

What are the criteria for the granting of a CCW credential in NYC?

Business ownership and associated "qualifications".

Nobody forbids you from protecting yourself and your family? Nobody "forbids" me from owning a business jet..

Oh come on! That's melodramatic $340 every three years is small beans. Whether it's wrong or right is another thing. I believe it's wrong as do you, but it certainly is affordable.

In NYC, I could likely afford one as the other. In NYC, some lives have more value than others, and an appropriate price is assigned to the ability to protect those lives.

Baloney. That applies EVERYWHERE.

You're agnostic? I didn't get that and I wasn't sure, I thought you were possibly quite religious based upon how hardline you write. Doesn't matter to me though.

Then again I'm no William Shakespeare

 

[Jeff White]

ENOUGH...this thread isn't about Strategies and tactics it's about personal morality and philosophy and those subjects are off topic here. Take it to APS.