Joe Demko
Member
Other than your g/f's word, what documentation do you have that this guy is a rapist?
stalker
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joab
Member
In almost every state PA included violating a restraining order is aggravated stalking and a felony. Restrining orders are usually very specific. They fail usually when the victim fails to report a violation. A friend of mine was going through a nasty divorce 10 years ago in Fla it is usually common prctice to issue a mutual restraining order. He got drunk and called her on the phone to tell her what he thought of her, within the hour the cops showed up to arrest him. The only reason it took them so long to get there was because she was in NYC at the time and he was in Fla so they did not see an immediate threat.
Do a Google search on your states stalking law, you may be surprised.
Do a Google search on your states stalking law, you may be surprised.
WonderNine
member
You're right, I just edited the post. But something should be done. Being passive about it will only make things worse.
well, just talked to my girlfriend. I had a small encounter with the stalker the other day. nothing big just a simple "stop". he came into her work today and apologized to her and said he would stop. so I'm hoping its over. thanks for all the helpful input.
thanks again.
thanks again.
clubsoda22
member
oh no, he confronted him...DOOM!
What you should have done was broken up with her and locked yourself in a concrete bunker burried deep in the granite core of a large mountain to avoid all possible conflict. But no, you had to tell him politely to stop. You way overstepped your bounds, buddy. Imagine the nerve! Stop!?! What were you thinking asking someone to discontinue an action that irritated you and your girlfriend rather than running away? Just today someone was chatting on their cell phone in a movie theater. I could have asked them politely to turn it off if i were a COMPLETE MORON. Instead i ran for the exit and did a tactical shoulder roll out of the theater, diving into my waiting car. If i had asked them to turn it off they could have pulled a gun on me, and then i'd have to defend myself! Did you ever think of the reprocussions!?!
What you should have done was broken up with her and locked yourself in a concrete bunker burried deep in the granite core of a large mountain to avoid all possible conflict. But no, you had to tell him politely to stop. You way overstepped your bounds, buddy. Imagine the nerve! Stop!?! What were you thinking asking someone to discontinue an action that irritated you and your girlfriend rather than running away? Just today someone was chatting on their cell phone in a movie theater. I could have asked them politely to turn it off if i were a COMPLETE MORON. Instead i ran for the exit and did a tactical shoulder roll out of the theater, diving into my waiting car. If i had asked them to turn it off they could have pulled a gun on me, and then i'd have to defend myself! Did you ever think of the reprocussions!?!
joab
Member
All smart comments aside. Do you really think it's over. If it is then the whole thing was way over blown to begin with.
But don't listen to us, you young guys have had way more life experience than us old farts.
If it ain't worth dying for it ain't worth fightin' for. Hopefully Club you won't ever have to find that out the hard way.
But don't listen to us, you young guys have had way more life experience than us old farts.
If it ain't worth dying for it ain't worth fightin' for. Hopefully Club you won't ever have to find that out the hard way.
clubsoda22
member
someone's lacking a sence of humor.
Anyway, the point i'm trying to make, all joking aside, is that no one got anywhere hiding from their problems. Telling this guy to back off was the right thing to do. If it doesn't work, tell him again. It's an assertive approach and that's how to get things done.
Some of you people are acting like confronting this guy is as bad as walking up and slugging him. what on earth could possibly go wrong with telling the guy politely that you don't appreciate him following your girlfriend around and neither does she? Worst thing i can see happening is that he ignores you.
Now, back to me being a smartass: "but clubsoda, what if he goes into a depressed rage, builds a thermonuclear device in his basement and casts the world into decades of nuclear winter?"
Being overly passive is just as bad as being overly aggressive.
Anyway, the point i'm trying to make, all joking aside, is that no one got anywhere hiding from their problems. Telling this guy to back off was the right thing to do. If it doesn't work, tell him again. It's an assertive approach and that's how to get things done.
Some of you people are acting like confronting this guy is as bad as walking up and slugging him. what on earth could possibly go wrong with telling the guy politely that you don't appreciate him following your girlfriend around and neither does she? Worst thing i can see happening is that he ignores you.
Now, back to me being a smartass: "but clubsoda, what if he goes into a depressed rage, builds a thermonuclear device in his basement and casts the world into decades of nuclear winter?"
Being overly passive is just as bad as being overly aggressive.
joab
Member
Do you think I went looking to break a guy's jaw? No. I went to simply tell him to stop harrassing my girlfriend.
The problem is not in confronting the guy, the problem would be in seeking that confrontation.
Which would put you as the agressor legally. That does not make us cowards, as you seem to imply that makes us smarter, or at least more educated in this type of matter, than you.
Discretion is the better part of valor, the best offense is a strong defense,pick your battles, and a whole bunch of other stupid cliches made up by old guy's that learned their lessons the hard way.
And my very favorite which has been strengthened by this discussion, which seems to have run it's course already, "Youth Is Wasted On The Young"
And I stand by my previous statement if this thing is really over, then it was way overblown in the first place.
The problem is not in confronting the guy, the problem would be in seeking that confrontation.
Which would put you as the agressor legally. That does not make us cowards, as you seem to imply that makes us smarter, or at least more educated in this type of matter, than you.
Discretion is the better part of valor, the best offense is a strong defense,pick your battles, and a whole bunch of other stupid cliches made up by old guy's that learned their lessons the hard way.
And my very favorite which has been strengthened by this discussion, which seems to have run it's course already, "Youth Is Wasted On The Young"
And I stand by my previous statement if this thing is really over, then it was way overblown in the first place.
joab
Member
There's a very thin line between smartass and dumbass
(That's a joke to lighten things up a bit, actually something I used to tell my son when he was your age)clubsoda22
member
My dad uses that line too
jeez, I hope its over and it was way overblown. I really do. however, I know what I have seen, I know what I have been told by the people I trust, I know certain peoples reputation, I know what I did, I know what I said. I have no guilty concious. I have no nagging voice in the back of my head. I have yet to do something I regret. and aparently the stalker doesn't want to do something he will regret (from prison). as of last night he has stopped. if it starts again then the legal action may continue. but until then I will hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.
i think you did the right thing flint. confronting him and asking him to stop doesn't mean you were looking for "confrontation", nor would it make you "the agressor legally". hopefully it all ends here.
as for breaking some guys jaw joab, no offense, but your mistake was losing control, not confronting him.
as for breaking some guys jaw joab, no offense, but your mistake was losing control, not confronting him.
joab
Member
I'm not the one that lost control he did. I just initiated the confrontation. Which made me the aggressor legally.
joab- not to beat a dead horse but......by losing control i mean throwing the first punch, shoving the guy, etc. if you confronted him politely, and he "lost control" first, you have the right to defend yourself. now if you run up to him and start with "what the f is your f'in problem buddy!!!" then yeah, you were seeking confrontation, and were the agressor. or even if he hit you first and you continually beat him after he was down, then your in deep do-do.
in this case and my own, remaining calm and simply asking the guy to back off in NO way makes flint the agressor.
problems like this need to be "nipped in the bud". ignoring it is just setting yourself up for a fall.
pick and choose battles, yes
choose not to address possible harm to a loved one, no.
in this case and my own, remaining calm and simply asking the guy to back off in NO way makes flint the agressor.
problems like this need to be "nipped in the bud". ignoring it is just setting yourself up for a fall.
pick and choose battles, yes
choose not to address possible harm to a loved one, no.
Joe Demko
Member
False dichotomy.
joab
Member
You havn't even come close proven.
Basically I had to prove that I simply wanted to talk to a white supremist who had been harrassing, stalking and threatening my girlfriend, and had no intention of getting into a fight with him.
His job was to prove that he was reasonably afraid of a guy who belived that he was a white supremist who had ben harassing, stalking, and threatening his girlfriend.
Once it was determined that I initiated the contact his job got a lot easier.
My secondary job was to prove that he initiated the conflict, by hitting me twice (with 2 washwomen punches) before I hit him (with a quick 1-2-3 left hook,overhand right, left uppercut combo. No where hear loss of control.) Which was extremely hard to do when the only appreciable wound I had was his tooth imbedded in hand, and he was KOd with a deformed jaw.
The DAs key point was always that I initiated the conflict by simply approaching him in any manner, when any reasonable person would fear that confrontaion.
Any more questions or assumptions?
Basically I had to prove that I simply wanted to talk to a white supremist who had been harrassing, stalking and threatening my girlfriend, and had no intention of getting into a fight with him.
His job was to prove that he was reasonably afraid of a guy who belived that he was a white supremist who had ben harassing, stalking, and threatening his girlfriend.
Once it was determined that I initiated the contact his job got a lot easier.
My secondary job was to prove that he initiated the conflict, by hitting me twice (with 2 washwomen punches) before I hit him (with a quick 1-2-3 left hook,overhand right, left uppercut combo. No where hear loss of control.) Which was extremely hard to do when the only appreciable wound I had was his tooth imbedded in hand, and he was KOd with a deformed jaw.
The DAs key point was always that I initiated the conflict by simply approaching him in any manner, when any reasonable person would fear that confrontaion.
Any more questions or assumptions?
joab
Member
And once again nobody has advocated ignoring the problem, nobody has advocated stepping back if he starts something with the girl in his presence, nobody has advocated letting this guy get away with it in any way.
What has been said was that he should not have a back street conversation with the guy when there are many more viable options still open. A suggestion which I wrongly attributed to him
A restraining order is a good start. Anybody who say's it's not is wrong. Once he violates a restraining order ,with which the judge has wide latitude in establishing conditions, he jas committed a felony. It's aggravated stalking in FLA and comes with up to 10 years of free accomadations. And I still think Flint's girl should pursue that, unless she is willing to accept the apology and word of an accused rapist and known scumbag.
And by the way once you get the restraining order it would be much easier to get away with breaking his jaw. (If you wanted to)
What has been said was that he should not have a back street conversation with the guy when there are many more viable options still open. A suggestion which I wrongly attributed to him
A restraining order is a good start. Anybody who say's it's not is wrong. Once he violates a restraining order ,with which the judge has wide latitude in establishing conditions, he jas committed a felony. It's aggravated stalking in FLA and comes with up to 10 years of free accomadations. And I still think Flint's girl should pursue that, unless she is willing to accept the apology and word of an accused rapist and known scumbag.
And by the way once you get the restraining order it would be much easier to get away with breaking his jaw. (If you wanted to)
i apologize if i came across as making assumptions. i was just trying to paint pics of hypotheticals that would make someone in this scenario seem like the "legal agressor". as for yours, it's outrageous that simply because you know how to throw a punch you were at fault. even after he had hit you first. that would be like me saying that a biker in a bar came over and asked me to leave. but because he's twice my size and a biker, i was reasonably afraid and within my rights to hit him. then when he defends himself and hits back just enough to stop my attack, he's thrown in jail.
some things just don't add up.
i respect your chosen advice knowing your personal experience, but i still believe that in today's court system you don't have the right hit someone simply because you are reasonably afraid of them or fear the confrontation.
some things just don't add up.
i respect your chosen advice knowing your personal experience, but i still believe that in today's court system you don't have the right hit someone simply because you are reasonably afraid of them or fear the confrontation.
clubsoda22
member
Bingo, but even easier would have been for her moron friends to put him away for rape, which is impossible now.
joab
Member
That's the biggest shame of it all
G21dude
Member
100 battered women can't be wrong
Joab, I agree with you on everything except a fine point regarding restraining orders. It's not ALWAYS a good idea -- try your line of argument down at the battered women's shelter. Ask the staff how many women are dead because they got a restraining order.
If someone is determined to break the law, a piece of paper won't stop them. That's why gun control doesn't make sense.
If you're dealing with a garden variety *******, you're probably OK, but there is a long history of "she got a restraining order, then he came over/to her work/to her parents' and killed her."
Sometime the correct response is to avoid contact. I'm not saying run away -- I'm saying ignore and avoid. If "he" calls, don't ever call back, even when (not if) he says "OK, this is my last call, I swear, I just want to apologize."
When a women ignores someone for 2 months and 80 phone calls, then calls back and says "LEAVE ME ALONE!" the jerk now knows the cost of talking to her is 2 months and 80 calls.
If you don't ever (ever ever ever) give him a response, more likely than with a restraining order, he'll get bored and go away. That's NOT to say don't prepare for further violence, just don't give him any feedback -- don't let him know he's getting a rise out of you.
My two cents
Joab, I agree with you on everything except a fine point regarding restraining orders. It's not ALWAYS a good idea -- try your line of argument down at the battered women's shelter. Ask the staff how many women are dead because they got a restraining order.
If someone is determined to break the law, a piece of paper won't stop them. That's why gun control doesn't make sense.
If you're dealing with a garden variety *******, you're probably OK, but there is a long history of "she got a restraining order, then he came over/to her work/to her parents' and killed her."
Sometime the correct response is to avoid contact. I'm not saying run away -- I'm saying ignore and avoid. If "he" calls, don't ever call back, even when (not if) he says "OK, this is my last call, I swear, I just want to apologize."
When a women ignores someone for 2 months and 80 phone calls, then calls back and says "LEAVE ME ALONE!" the jerk now knows the cost of talking to her is 2 months and 80 calls.
If you don't ever (ever ever ever) give him a response, more likely than with a restraining order, he'll get bored and go away. That's NOT to say don't prepare for further violence, just don't give him any feedback -- don't let him know he's getting a rise out of you.
My two cents
i never said backstreet. i'm talking in public. and i'm all for the restraining order, but as i said when the girli was dating tried for that they told her that unless they were in a relationship together or had sexual history she could forget it. i imagine that it could depend on the police or the judge though. at least now that he asked the guy to stop, he can tell the police "look, i politely asked this guyu to leave us alone and he keeps harassing us". i think he'll have more to stand on.
as for ignore him and he'll get bored and go away...maybe
but what if he decides to try new and improved ways of getting her attention, like forcing her into his car, etc, etc. i still say nip it in the bud by asking him to stop and if it continues talk to the police. i'd also be prepared for the po-po to do nothing as well.
but what if he decides to try new and improved ways of getting her attention, like forcing her into his car, etc, etc. i still say nip it in the bud by asking him to stop and if it continues talk to the police. i'd also be prepared for the po-po to do nothing as well.
joab
Member
I had no choice it was the only punch I knew
To be fair my biggest mistake was doing it alone with no witnesses to say that I did not initiate combat or whatever.
He didn't seek the contact I did
He was injured I was not
I was dating an Asian girl in Just post Vietnam era
Three strikes and you out. Or in my case in.
We definetly have differing opinions, based on life experiences, on the same issue I guess that's what makes horse races and court cases.
It has been a pleasure debating with you and I can see some merit in your position. (poitician mode off)
But I think we're probably boring the hell out of every body else so Good luck Flint. I'd still go for the restraining order just to be safe, If he really means to stay away from her them he should have no problem obeying it.
joab
Member
Just one more
G21dude
I can't say I disagree with you probably works best to get the RO at first contact
But since guns are not an option and niether is I think a crash course in self defense. It is a option worth looking at.
I know that when we got the RO against my nieces boyfriend the "I'm gonna kill you all messages stopped appearing on the door and he quit parking around the corner from her job.
Some times letting them know that you are not interested in as strong of terms as possible and to pursue it is to risk your freedom is enough
There also should be a huge difference between a husband wife relationship and a stranger to stranger infatuation. Mental instability not with standing. I know nutbags are unpredictable.
G21dude
I can't say I disagree with you probably works best to get the RO at first contact
But since guns are not an option and niether is I think a crash course in self defense. It is a option worth looking at.
I know that when we got the RO against my nieces boyfriend the "I'm gonna kill you all messages stopped appearing on the door and he quit parking around the corner from her job.
Some times letting them know that you are not interested in as strong of terms as possible and to pursue it is to risk your freedom is enough
There also should be a huge difference between a husband wife relationship and a stranger to stranger infatuation. Mental instability not with standing. I know nutbags are unpredictable.
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