Shelf life of reloads?

[silverbullet86]

This is sort of a piggy-back to jeeptim's post about how many reloads you have stockpiled.

Has anyone researched the shelf life of reloaded ammo?

I realize that there are MANY variables involved. What prompted my question, is that I was noticing even after tumbling, the inside of my 223 cases are not all that clean. So, a typical reloader cleans his/her brass to varying levels of cleanliness, opens primers to the atmosphere/humidity to prime cases, opens powder to the atmosphere/humidity to measure and charge the cases, and handles the bullets when seating, maybe with bare hands/finger oils.

All of these things would surely affect the shelf life vs. factory ammo made in a controlled environment with new/clean components.

Thoughts???

 

[rcmodel]

Mine are at least a lifetime I think.

I just shot some .38 Spl last year I loaded in 1970 something.

And I recently shot some .22 WRF that isn't sealed at all, that was made in the late 1940's.
It all shot fine!

But I store most all my reloaded ammo in sealed GI ammo cans in the cool basement.

Setting on a shelf open in the garage or shed in the sun, they wouldn't last as long.
But neither would GI ammo.

rc

 

[jr_watkins]

3 weekends ago I shot a bag of fifty 40S&W (5gr HP38, 180gr FMJ, Rem 1 1/2 primers) that I made in 1995. Really not that old I guess, but they had been stored in a sandwich bag in my trailer that does not have climate control for at least the last 8 years. They looked poor, brass was very tarnished, but all fed and fired just fine.

 

[mgmorden]

How clean your brass is doesn't affect the shelf life - neither does most of the other things you mentioned. For the most part the shelf life of reloaded ammo is however long you need it to be. I've only been loading for a little over a decade but I still occasionally shoot rounds I loaded when I first started and they all work just fine. As you can see from other posters, they're good for a lot longer than that.

 

[therealwormey]

couple weeks ago i decided to shoot all the oddball half and 1/4 boxes i had sitting around so i could use the brass.the old stuff was some a friend loaded in the 80s, 38/357 loaded with unique and bullets were cast he made as he had a tire shop so plenty of used lead. not a single misfire. some of the cases were crappy with a film of what i assume was a clear lube residue and a little hard to chamber but i have since cleaned to shiny as new. so that 30 year old powder and primers held up well.

 

[Reloadron]

I shot 50 of these last week:

Cartridge: 30-06
Case: Mixed Once Fired
Primer: CCI 200
Powder: IMR4895
Wt: 46 Grains
Bullet: Sierra 150 Grain FMJ
Date: 15 March '95

Like therealwormey every now and then I dig into the piles of stuff I loaded years ago. I still have 50 more of the above. I likely loaded these for M1 Garand. All 50 went bang just fine and I believe the reaming 50 should do just fine. Maybe I should wait till March of 2015 and make it a 20th anniversary shoot?

I really don't know what the shelf life for hand loaded ammunition is. That assuming there is a shelf life? Thinking I have shot stuff I loaded 20 to 30 years ago without a problem. I can see where ammunition that is loaded using good loading practices should last a lifetime with proper storage technique.

Ron

 

[Comrade Mike]

Modern powders are extremely stable under proper storage conditions, and lead styphnate doesn't degrade in atmosphere. Hand loaded ammo should last indefinitely.

 

[Slamfire]

The lifetime of ammunition is primarly determined by the lifetime of gunpowder. Understand that gunpowder has a shelf life. This is a high energy compound that is breaking down, from day one, to a low energy compound. Our gunpowders are either nitrocellulose or nitrocellulose & nitroglycerine. The nitroglycerine is there basically for the energy boast. Because nitroglycerine attacks the double bonds on nitrocellulose the lifetime of double based powders is less than half that of single based. Stabilizers are mixed with the nitrocellulose/nitroglycerine as a sacrificial compound: stabilizers soak up the nitric acid gas that is created when nitrocellulose deteriorates. When the stabilizer gets low , gunpowder is extremely unstable and unsafe. In quantity it will auto combust and the burn rate is irregular. Burn rate instability has and will blow up firearms.

A good rule of thumb is that single base powders will last 45 years and double based 20 years. Like all rules of thumb this is wrong more often than it is right.

This thread has really excellent pictures:

Has anyone else had Vihtavuori N140 corrode in loaded ammo?
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3745264

Notice that the gunpowder is only around 25 years old and yet people are experiencing nasty corrosion due to nitric acid gas release from the gunpowder. It was not that long ago that 20 years was considered the shelf life of gunpowder.

Army Ordnance Magazine, May 1931, Safety Hazards, Picatinny Arsenal

Smokeless powder constitutes one of the greatest hazards from a storage standpoint, due to the fact that is subject to deterioration and at the best cannot be expected to have a life greater than about twenty years

The worst enemy of gunpowder is heat. The lifetime of gunpowder is reduced exponentially with increases in temperature. This chart came from a UN manual on ammunition inspection. Section 7.3 is well worth reading

Surveillance and in-service proof - the United Nationshttp://www.un.org/disarmament/convar...Proof(V.1).pdf






Exposure to water is bad, even though water is a polar covalent molecule, it acts ionic. All ionic compounds break gunpowder down faster. I think that may be a reason why gunpowder now comes in plastic cans, the tin cans released rust into the powder and that accelerated powder breakdown. Water is in air, so it is best to keep gunpowder cans sealed.


Federal says their ammunition has a ten year shelf life:
Federal Ammunition :
http://www.federalpremium.com/company/faq.aspx

What is the shelf life of ammo and storage?
Store reloading components and ammunition in a cool, dry place, protected from direct exposure to sunlight. If stored properly there is a 10-year shelf life on loaded ammunition.

There is very little information on the internet about gunpowder aging and causing pressure problems because all that was ever needed to be known was determined well before WW2. However ball powders did come out at the end of WW2 and I was able to find this data showing that gunpowder at the end of its lifetime will pressure spike. Heat is used to accelerate the age of gunpowder, so what you are seeing is in fact because of “age”, not heat, but it took heat to age the powder quickly. The IMR is a single based and the WC is a double based ball powder.

INVESTIGATION OF THE BALLISTIC AND CHEMICAL STABILITY OF 7.62MM AMMUNITION LOADED WITH BALL AND IMR PROPELLANT

Frankfort Arsenal 1962

3. Effects of Accelerated Storage Propellant and Primer Performance

To determine the effect of accelerated isothermal storage upon propellant and primer performance, sixty cartridges from each of lots E (WC 846) and G (R 1475) were removed from 150F storage after 26 and 42 weeks, respectively. The bullets were then removed from half the cartridges of each lot and from an equal number of each lot previously stored at 70F. The propellants were then interchanged, the bullets re-inserted, and the cases recrimped. Thus, four variations of stored components were obtained with each lot.

Chamber pressures yielded by ammunition incorporating these four variations were as follows. These values represent averages of 20 firings.







You can google “surplus ammunition Kaboom” or the equivalent and find a surprising number of reports of firearms that have blown up with old military ammunition. Now I am going to tell you the terrible truth about surplus ammunition. The stuff was surplused because it was at the end of its service life and the Army that owned it, determined that it was unsafe to store and unsafe to shoot. Some Ammunition Specialist went through that lot and found evidence that the gunpowder had deteriorated and the stuff was sold to eager Americans who do not know about the risks of old ammunition.

Interesting Pictures in this thread: When Milsurp Ammo Goes Bad
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?230264-When-milsurp-ammo-goes-bad

Why some powder goes bad quickly and other lasts longer, heck if I know. The strangeness of this can be found in this thread at Post 61. This is Unclenick’s experience and it is worth looking at the picture:


http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539440&highlight=old+gunpowder&page=3


Of particular interest to me was the link to the thread on N140. In the early 1990's, my dad got a 1/4 lb free sample container of N140 at Camp Perry, and gave half of it to me. That's about 20 rounds worth in .308; not enough to do serious load development with. I put it in a plastic bottle with a plated and painted steel cap with cardboard seal disc. I left it at the back of a high shelf in the basement where it was out of sight and soon out of mind. Some time later I bought a full pound of N140 to experiment with, but that original 1/4 lb continued to sit.

I finally re-encountered the bottle during some cleaning out activity. It looked like this:


The powder in it was not powder any longer. The grains were all stuck together. That was the result of the lid seal failing and letting humidity in. The acid fumes corroded the lid out. Rinse water put over it poured out yellow. At that point I cut the container open and buried the wet mass under the compost heap to let nature take its course.

Interestingly, the remaining 1/8 lb still at my father's place (also untouched)

 

[gamestalker]

I'm extremely OCD about loading in a clean environment. That said I have yet found any of my reloads to have a shelf life, some are 30 yrs. old and still function the same as when I loaded them.

There is no question about it, I do suffer OCD. After I finished prepping my brass, I maliciously clean any remaining lube off, focusing most of my attention on the internals. Then I tumble it for a rather long time. If it is loads that I know will be in use over a period of years, such as my self defense carry and hunting loads, I rinse the brass with acetone to ensure it is absolutely 100% free of any residue. While wearing gloves, I prime, charge, and seat the bullets, done.

OTOH, if I'm doing a work up, or know that what gets loaded is going to be used in the very near future, I don't go to such extremes, though I still make sure it is free of lube through conventional wiping down, and then tumbling.

What bothers me, is when a fellow reloader will come to me with issues, and then when I start pulling rounds I find powder that is obviously contaminated, thus clumped together.

GS

 

[WestKentucky]

Still shooting my dads reloads from when he was 12. He is a 1956 model so that puts those rounds at 44 we plan to finish them off this fall as they are getting weaker and smelling dusty so they are certainly past their prime.

 

[Hondo 60]

Wow! I think the longest any of my handgun ammo sat on a shelf was about a year.
and that's an obscure caliber - 7.62x25

My 38/357/9mm/44spl/44mag usually is less than 3 or 4 months old.

I've got some .223 that was loaded in July 2010.

Maybe I go to the range too often.
(Is that even possible?)

 

[HOWARD J]

I have been shooting reloads that are 35 years old---work good
I had about 40 #'s of powder that was 30/35 years old-- I used the last of it this year--worked good.
I had 8 MM Mauser shells from WW2--they gave a nasty sunburn so I tossed them

 

[JohnM]

Hardly worth worrying about IMO.
Storage conditions have been brought up, if ammo is stored anywhere halfway comfortable for people, it's going to be good for decades.
Not too long ago I found some rifle ammo I'd reloaded in the mid 60's, it all shot like it should.

 

[sage5907]

I think the only way reloads could be really screwed up before long term storage would be to handle the primers with oily hands or to leave oil inside the case that was used to lubricate the inside of the case neck. If you don't have oil or moisture on the primer or inside the case shelf life should be indefinite. I store my reloads in GI ammo cans to keep the moisture out.

 

[silverbullet86]

WOW! Slamfire1, your post had some really interesting information!

I don't use VV powders for anything right now, so no concern there. However, of interest is the heat/degradation chart.

What if you travel in the summer time and MIGHT have an ammo can or two that stays in the car for a few days? With summer temps a car/truck interior or trunk can reach 150 deg.

Guess I'll have to track any of those rounds and shoot them within 2-5 years.

 

[Hypnogator]

I recently shot some 12-ga trap loads and some .30 Carbine cartridges I loaded up prior to when the Army joined me in 1971. All shot perfectly well!

Hercules Red Dot in the shotshells, and, IIRC, AL-5 in the carbine.

 

[Slamfire]

I don't use VV powders for anything right now, so no concern there. However, of interest is the heat/degradation chart.

Just because I found some excellent pictures of in the case corrosion caused by Vihtavuori N140, don’t go off the deep end thinking this is something unique to Vihtavuori. It is not, all gunpowder deteriorates.

The Pentagon scraps Billions of dollars of old ammunition, big stuff and small stuff every year:

Pentagon to scrap of $1.2 Billion worth of ammunition
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/04/29/pentagon-scrap-1-2-billion-worth-ammunition/

Report: Pentagon to destroy $1B in ammunition

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-ammunition-sen-tom-carper-gao-waste/8145729/

This thread, at castboolits, is worth looking at, has some good pictures. Members are relating experiences with old ammunition.

.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?230264-When-milsurp-ammo-goes-bad
1. When milsurp ammo goes bad........


I have no idea what gunpowder Norma uses, but it is probably Norma powder, (good guess?) and given enough time, it will go bad.

Corrosion like I have never seen
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=542632

I inherited a bit of ammo when my Father died, and among that cache was a box of Norma 220gr .30-06 (from the 60's by the look of the box)...

I pulled them out to look at them this AM, and this is what I found:

Five out of 16 rounds have this corrosion on them...On two, the corrosion has expanded the case below the bullet to the extent where the brass ruptured...This box was stored bullet down for decades at Dad's, and for a few years now here...They had a cardboard divider in the box so none touched, and there is no sign of water damage to the box or divider...I have looked through the rest of the 06 ammo boxes, and all are pristine like they came from the factories yesterday (but none are Norma)...

What the heck am I seeing here?

Is this corrosive primers gone bad and dripped through the powder to the base of the bullet and then eaten through, or is this deteriorating powder fuming through the case?

I obviously am not going to fire any of these rounds, but are they even safe to subject to bullet pulling in an impact puller???

I'd love to salvage the bullets at least...

Any help or opinions would be appreciated

What if you travel in the summer time and MIGHT have an ammo can or two that stays in the car for a few days? With summer temps a car/truck interior or trunk can reach 150 deg.

For a few days, I would not sweat it. However, if those days turn into months, (and it always does) and that ammunition is something you depend on for your life, I would shoot it up and replace with new. I talked to a couple of Logistic Specialists at USATCES, in their experience it was very important to not let ammunition stay too long in tracked vehicles. When I asked why, well, old ammunition caused problems. I guess a combination of heat and severe vibration just beat the powder up.

 

[gamestalker]

OK, I just pulled a bullet from some .270 hunting loads I made in the mid 80's for a 700 ADL I specifically loaded them for. When I pulled the bullet, that wonderful odor of fresh powder came bellowing out. I poured the powder out, which was some very old to begin with IMR-4350 and inspected it. It looked completely normal, no red dust or any sign of breaking down. The inside of the brass was also completely normal, no signs of corrosion what so ever.

I conclude that loaded ammo will probably out last me.

GS

 

[Airman Basic]

Have some Hodgdon powder from the 50s that I sample occasionally. Still working as advertised. Some I think older than that, an old friend bought directly from Hodgdon in a paper sack.

 

[W.E.G.]

I recently fired a bunch of 5.56 ammo I loaded with VihtaVuori N540 and N135 around 1998. It was all in good condition, and accuracy was very good. No corrosion. Ammo was stored in ammo cans in cool, dry place.

There was a spate of corrosion incidents with N140 powder. Not sure what that was about, but it was all about N140.

 

[RainDodger]

I have 1950s or 60s .22 ammo that shoots just great. Remember the old green Remington "Kleenbore" boxes? I've got a bunch, LR, longs and shorts. I have hand loads that I put together in the late 70s that are fine also, rifle and pistol.

I store my ammo the same as rc mentioned though - mostly in ammo cans, all of it in a relatively cool workshop.

 

[Match10]

I loaded four hundred rounds of my settled-upon accuracy hunting load in 1990. 7mm RemMag, Barnes Original X bullet, etc.... I shoot a max of three per year. I have a lifetime supply for that rifle. They kill deer and antelope every year.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've got a cache of .30-06 loaded with 180 grain Nosler Partition Jackets that I loaded up in 1974. The bullets were so expensive that I got into the habit of only using those loads for actual hunting. Zeroing and practice were done with cheaper bullets.

They still work fine.

 

[Slamfire]

My purpose in writing about this is to inform, not create a chicken little complex in shooters. What I read tends to be anecdotal information which is based in denial. Reminds me about the fight with smokers about whether smoking caused cancer. Smokers would point out that people, like George Burns, smoked and drank till he was over 100 years, and of course, these examples were true. But I also know one smoker who is down a lung, and many others who died in their 50’s and 60’s.

Any expectations that ammunition lasts forever and is safe forever is false. Shoot the stuff up, shoot up old ammunition first and rotate your stocks. Old ammunition is a risk for blowing up your gun. Not every old round will blow the thing, but shoot enough old ammunition, and you will find some that give pressure problems.

It is easy to find posts of problems with old ammunition. It is unfortunate that posters, and those responding, don’t know, and probably don’t believe, that gunpowder ages, and when it gets old, pressures will spike. So you read many diagnoses that sound similar to the 18th century truisms that yellow fever came from “the vapors”. Mosquitoes were in those vapors, but mosquito bites were not considered as a disease source.

I have more of these posts, but you hit a character limit on forums.

For those that think old ammo is still ok....
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/38539-those-think-old-ammo-still-ok-print.html

A buddy of mine took his Sig p220 .45 down the range with us the other weekend. He had some old winchester hollowpoints that looked like they had been buried for 30 years. With myself still being new to guns and shooting, i didnt think anything about it.

Well he took one shot and it blow up in his hand. Now he has shot numerous rounds through this gun without a problem, of course they were new. Anyway, noone was hurt but the sig. This is hte way the gun is stuck in. It will not budge. Id say its a nice new paperweight

Remington 700 Overpressure with 20 year old factory ammunition

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527519

I'm sighting in my Remington 700 BDL .270 / Nikon 3X9 BDC today, and I decided to rotate old stock ammo. In this case, brand new (20 years ago), 130 grain ammo by a well known US ammunition Company. I bought several boxes of this brand, same lot, back in the early 90's after I discovered how wonderful they worked on woodchucks.

So I'm firing my 2nd round... WHAM! My mild .270 rifle bellows and whacks me in the glasses, odd I thought, as my .270's never kick like that.

The bolt won't open. I mean it is JAMMED. So after 5 min of banging on the bolt with my hand (HARD),it opens Ok, now the bolt draws back hard and the brass feels like its WELDED to the bolt face. I had to use a leatherman tool to pry it out. Rim was damaged, blackened, primer floating around, etc. Bolt appeared ok (Thank the Good Lord for Remington's 3 rings of steel protecting me!), and after switching ammo and using newer stock, the rifle functioned and sighted in 100% perfect. Scared the hell out of me though! This was factory ammo too, not reloads.


Ok, so I called Remington (ammo was early 90's vintage 130 grain Rem bronze point). They only back their ammo for 10 years (expected shelf life according to Remington). Note* I kept this ammo in a cool, dry place, sealed in a US Military ammo can for the past 2 decades. I have ammo from the 50's and 60's that still shoots fine. I guess with gunpowder, it's like rolling dice.

So, I'm glad the rifle is a Remington, as it was strong enough to take the hit without any damage, otherwise it would be my dime (and hide). I had our armorer (LEO), check it out as well. The bolt face appears ok, and I pulled the firing pin, ok as well. Damn strong rifle.

That brass was warped near the rim, I hate to guess what the PSI was, I'm betting well over 80,000 PSI, given how stiff that bolt was to open. If I can get a photo posted, I will. Now I have several boxes of old .270 ammo to dispose of, as I'm not going to shoot it through my cherished 700 BDL anymore. At least the brass is still good and my right hand is still attached to my arm!
Time to go out and stock up on .270's!!!

Picher; Yes, bore was / is like a mirror. The rifle is a MINT early 80's BDL 700. No rust or pitting. She is one sexy rifle, it was love at first sight... The high gloss wood and rich, deep blue steel.... MMmmmmm!!!!

It was close to 90 on Sunday in Maine, and humid. The ammo has been stored correctly, but, after all, it HAS been 20 years or so. I know my knees are not the same as they were 2 decades ago, so I guess I can't expect the ammo to fair any better. It just caught me off guard, as I stock up on (and shoot), old ammo, and NEVER had any issue. I guess I need to rotate my supply more often...

HK Blown up with Brazilian Surplus

http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php/90285-Gun-Blown-up

Hello gang i was just wondering if any of you guys have ever blown up a gun while shooting. I had the unfortunate luck of blowing up an HK-91 back around 1989. Me and a buddy of mine were buying cases of mil surplus from a company in ohio at the time in 1000 rd. cases. We had gotten a few cases from said company and never had any issues. Well the last case we got from them was from brazil cbc i believe it was. He called me and said he was having jamming issues with this ammo in his sar-48 bush gun. I told him well i'll go out with you and run some through my 91 it'll eat anything. Well the third round out of the 91 "BOOM" pretty scary it was.
I think you can have or get a bad round or lot of ammo with any manufacturer. That being said the ammo that blew my 91 up was military surplus from brazil. Thats the problem with mil surplus its put onto the market because its deemed not worthy of use for the military of said country.
So you get some good some bad you take your chances. But when your setting off small explosions with each trigger pull in your weapon anything can happen at any time with any manufacturers product.
Just be sure to wear eye and e
ar protection and good gloves are'nt a bad idea either. "**** HAPPENS" you know, don't you just love that saying.
Be safe and have a great weekend.

http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21886
Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:29 PM

'Tailgunner', on 17 Jul 2012 - 13:16, said:

I picked up some surplus ammo a couple of years ago and had a couple of hang fires. The hammer would drop and a second later the rifle would discharge.
After that happened a couple of times, I decided I wasn't going to shoot that stuff any more. So I took the ammo apart, thinking I'd at least salvage the brass. After I'd pulled all of the bullets and dumped the powder, I tried chucking the primed cases in a vice and then hit the primers with a pin punch and a hammer. I found that some of the primers would "pop" but others would just sizzle and smoke. I'm pretty sure those were my hang fires. It was an interesting experiment.

The last surplus ammo I had looked so bad that I never fired any of it. Like you, I took it apart. The powder was clumped together. The base of the bullet was green with corrosion. I decapped all the brass, burned the primers and powder outside when burning rubbish, and sold the brass and bullets to a scrap company. Recouped a very small amount of initial price. That was the last time I got fooled on surplus ammo crap.

My guess is that most of the foreign countries that are selling surplus goods to the USA, don't care much about how they handle or store the items, as long as it gets on the shipping container and they pocket the purchase price, they are happy. Caveat emptor is Latin for "Let the buyer beware." It especially applies to surplus goods that have a shelf life. Where was it stored? How was it stored? What temperature? Subjected to water or salt air? Exposed to a structure fire? How was it transported? Etc. etc...too many unanswered questions. A deal that is too good to be true, usually is too good to be true.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7756780&postcount=6

Although it's remotely possible that a defective load (very unlikely if factory ammo) or poorly stored ammo that had deterioated. I had some H450 go bad and an "accuracy" load from a .30/06 w/180gr bullet locked up the bolt and removed case looked like a belted magnum...... but gun was unharmed.... primer was blown however and pitted the bolt face...... I pulled down the rest of the ammo and powder "stunk" like vinegar and inside of cases were turning green from acid corrosion..... Ammo had only been loaded 6mos earlier... and powder looked and smelled "ok" then.

Garand Blowup with WWII ball

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7870113&postcount=13

I have an old shooting buddy who some years ago was shooting some WWII ball (don’t know whose) but his M-1 was disassembled in a rather rapid fashion. He was lucky only his pride was hurt. He said he took a round apart and found rust looking dust along with the powder. Bad powder. Just sayin…..The op rod can be rebuilt which might be a good way to go. Op Rods are getting harder to find and when you find one a premium price is required so it seems. Garands require grease. I’m not sure if you are aware of this. If you are, please no offence taken.

Garand Blowup with old US ammunition.

http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?p=1344088

There was a thread on another forum titeled “What’s in your ammo can” and many guys had old surpluss ammo so I told this story. Ty (arizonaguide) asked that I come put it here also so here it is boys, draw your own conclutions.

Back in the mid 80s my Dad and a bunch of us went shooting in Arizona. Dad had a couple thousand rounds of WWII surplus .30M1 (30-06) ammo that looked great on the outside cut his M1 in half in his hands. He was kneeling with elbow on knee when the first round of this ammo went BOOM! We were all pelted with sand and M1 shrapnel.

When the dust cleared Dad was rolling around on his back with buttstock in one hand, for stock in the other, barrel and receiver hanging by the sling around his arm trying to yell “mortar” thinking he was back on Okinawa in battle. The blast had removed his ear muffs, hat, glasses, and broke the headlight in my truck 15 feet away but Dad was only shook up and scratched a bit once he got his wits back. It sheared off the bolt lugs, blew open the receiver front ring, pushed all the guts out the bottom of the magazine, and turned the middle of the stock to splinters.

After a couple hours of picking up M1 shrapnel we headed to the loading bench and started pulling bullets. Some of the powder was fine, some was stuck together in clumps, and some had to be dug out with a stick. It didn’t smell and was not dusty like powder usuley is when it’s gone bad. Put it in a pie tin and light it and it seemed a tad fast but not so you would think it could do that, wasent like lighting a pistol powder even. He had 2000 rounds of this stuff and nun of us were in any mood to play with it much after what we watched so it all went onto a very entertaining desert bon fire. I got the M1 splinters when Dad died last year and will post pix here below for your parousal and entertainment.

Anyway, I no longer play with any ammo I am not 100% sure has always been stored properly . . . cheap shooting ain’t worth the risk to me anymore! I still buy surpluss if the price in right but I unload and reload it with powder I am sure of or just use the brass.

She was a good shooting servasable Winchester M1 before this.

HXP at Perry . . .

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=115939

HXP 77 was the culprit. I won't shoot that stuff. A whole bunch of heavy bolt handle lifts in the 03 matches when it was issued at Perry. I have fired a lot of HXP 70, 72 & 73 with no issues at all, 03's and M1's.

Tombguard, What Ceresco is implying is that while HXP 77 ammo exhibited frequent and sometimes severe issues (excessive bolt lift force, dismounted op rods, duds, hangfires, etc.) there is the concern that other lots will have the same issues but with perhaps lesser frequency. If a manufacturing process doesn't have robust QC practices, more issues are lurking out there like snakes in the grass. I am not saying that you should avoid HXP ammo - I'm just saying that one should be aware that systemically the issues might extend beyond HXP 77 ammo

In the 2007 Perry matches it was '88 dated ammo that gave a lot of 03A3 fits on opening. I keep the saved round I had in rapids beside the silver medal I earned with 29 rounds. Believe me when I tell you it was locking those bolts up TIGHT. (As in roll out of position and beat them open.)

Stiff Bolt Handle on SC 03a3
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=92269&highlight=high+pressure+greek

Took my SC 03a3 to the range a week ago, shooting fairly good groups at 100yds (~2MOA) with unsorted HXP. Had a problem though - occasionally the bolt handle would be VERY difficult to lift open. Never had that before with new production ammo, other sessions with HXP, and never had a problem when dry-firing (snap caps, etc). Didn't break anything evident, and everything APPEARS to function correctly. The brass all looks like I expect (There is some minor pitting in the chamber which shows on the brass, but does not effect extraction), it just felt like I needed a hammer or a crow bar to lift the bolt handle sometimes (but not always). Any ideas as to what is going wrong

Typical HXP problem. It will often be hard to chamber some rounds as well. I had 3 saved rounds in 2006 at the Western Games 1903 match when round 7 could not be extracted from the chamber and no one had a BFH handy. A wooden mallet later helped extract the round. That was in a pristine M1903 Remington with a perfect chamber. All other ammo I feed it functions perfectly. I have a 1903A3 that also has issues with HXP. About 10-20% of some lots are very long in the shoulder. I have a couple rounds that won't chamber in a 1903 at all. It almost looks like I put a No-Go gage in the chamber.

If it is only when you shoot HXP new ammo that is your problem and your answer. It's a problem that has existed with a great many bolt guns since the very first day that CMP began selling HXP ammo and has been much discussed in this forum and others for several years (and see, even today). It was a common complaint among shooters for years at the regional CMP Games and the Nationals when CMP was issuing HXP as the required ammo to use. As I stated before, in 2006, if you walked the line in every relay of the 1903 match you would see shooters having to slap bolts closed and struggle to get bolts open. Many saved rounds in rapid fire were the result and the reason for the many complaints for several years.

I doubt there is a single thing wrong with your rifle or anyone's rifle that is experiencing this problem with HXP in bolt guns. If other ammo feeds and extracts without problems you have the answer already. The long and short of it .....no pun intended....is the ammo, not the rifle. HXP brass is some of the greatest re-loadable brass out there but, it often sucks the first time around through a bolt gun. Nature of the beast.

Chilean 75 kaboom on IMBEL

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=142685

Jeter's right,.....****ty brass. '75 Chilean is notorious for blowing up rifles. This one was freshly built, in spec and headspaced(fortunately not mine). It took approximately 60 rounds to find the 'bad' one. Shooter was relatively unharmed; just a few nicks and cuts. Probably has a world class flinch now. Barrel and bolt looked OK, carrier was not recovered(as in 'no one could find it'). I would not want to be in the way of a carrier that was departing the area at such a speed as to become lost.

*Note* Do not fire Chilean '75.

I wasn't present at the festivities, so I don't have pics of the barrel, etc. I was told by my gunsmith that the barrel was used in the rebuild on another new receiver, as was the bolt, so those parts were undamaged. The extractor was gone of course.

The Chilean '75 has brittle brass that tends to let go, dumping full pressure into the action. I've seen several FALs, HK91's and MG42's destroyed by this ammunition. The picture below(bad as it is)is of a different case,......not the case that destroyed the Imbel pictured above. It did destroy an FAL and I was present at this event. Pretty much the same but without the destruction of the receiver ring; receiver was bulged open at the magwell and the magazine bulged and blown out. Bolt and carrier remained in the rifle, but the topcover was blown off along with the extractor. Again, barrel