Reloads Shelf Life

[GeoDudeFlorida]

This forum has been supportive of my writings on the deterioration issues of gunpowder. But I got to tell you, on other forums it is surprising how fast posters become absolutely vile and hateful when told that their gunpowder has been breaking down from the day it left the factory, and at some unknown date in the future, will become dangerous to shoot and store.

I believe that these irrational, hateful deniers somehow conflate their desire for immortality with the immortality of their ammunition/gun powder. And you can see the logic, because their gunpowder will last forever, then that means they are going to last forever. Murder one, murder them both. Magical thinkers don't like their having their delusions popped.

It would be great if we mere mortals had an affordable and simple way to test other than with our noses. Some day…

 

[Ru4real]

How can a handloader validate their loads are still good?

When you find a load you like, load it in large quantities, same powder and primers, with chrono results from day 1. Say 500 rounds of 308.

After 10 years, shoot a couple rounds a year from your 500 stash over the chrono. Should be within your standard deviation from your day 1 chrono results.

 

[AJC1]

How can a handloader validate their loads are still good?

When you find a load you like, load it in large quantities, same powder and primers, with chrono results from day 1. Say 500 rounds of 308.

After 10 years, shoot a couple rounds a year from your 500 stash over the chrono. Should be within your standard deviation from your day 1 chrono results.

Visual inspection is much better. I like to use the tool the dr uses to look in your ears and nose. Cool tool from dad. Choose a few and then just neck size and reseat the bullet. I shoot testers separate.

 

[Walkalong]

I have 40 year old powder that is good, and had a jug of N-130 go bad at around ten years.

 

[Ru4real]

Visual inspection is much better.

How so? What visual standard are you comparing to? When something “looks good” how much longer will it be good for? In other words, what is the trend, if any?

Measuring against an established known (the day one data) and trending over time (a couple rounds every year) is tough to beat. But maybe you can convince me.

 

[AJC1]

How so? What visual standard are you comparing to? When something “looks good” how much longer will it be good for? In other words, what is the trend, if any?

Measuring against an established known (the day one data) and trending over time (a couple rounds every year) is tough to beat. But maybe you can convince me.

There will likely be visual indication of powder, smell, and or corrosion that are lead indicators. Also popping the cork will let you evaluate neck tension or any cold welding. Besides if it's bad you want to pull the trigger and hope its good.

 

[AJC1]

I have 40 year old powder that is good, and had a jug of N-130 go bad at around ten years.

That was my fear when getting the n135, and why it's on the priority use list. Get while the getting is good they say.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Besides if it's bad you want to pull the trigger and hope its good.

Yup. Sounds like a, “Hold my beer,” moment in the making.

 

[Hondo 60]

There was also some verdigris inside the case.

OK, I'll bite & ask what is verdigris?

Hopefully this will be a learning moment for me!

 

[AJC1]

OK, I'll bite & ask what is verdigris?

Hopefully this will be a learning moment for me!

That's navy for brass corrosion.

 

[Hondo 60]

Ah, ok, tyvm

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

That's navy for brass corrosion.

Actually it’s Latin for green grit but, close enough. Copper oxidation, really. Brass is copper and zinc.

 

[Ru4real]

Besides if it's bad you want to pull the trigger and hope its good.

If you are worried that you have old ammo 30 years after you loaded or bought it, and have done nothing to trend the degradation, then that’s the situation you will probably have when you pull the bullet. A surprise.

Yup. Sounds like a, “Hold my beer,” moment in the making.

Agree, 100%. Powder manufactures validate powder stability through lab analysis that measures the concentration of stabilizers, among other things, in the powder.

I don’t have a lab at my disposal, but I do have a chronograph and I know chrono results trend with pressure. So, I measure with what I have. When I have a couple rounds outside my recorded day 1 standard deviation, I will pull a bullet. A situation I’ve not encountered, yet. The oldest ammo I have is only 25 years old and velocity trends are good, so far.

For old looking ammo, that I don’t know the history on, I’ll pull a bullet anyway, regardless.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

If you are worried that you have old ammo 30 years after you loaded or bought it, and have done nothing to trend the degradation, then that’s the situation you will probably have when you pull the bullet. A surprise.



Agree, 100%. Powder manufactures validate powder stability through lab analysis that measures the concentration of stabilizers, among other things, in the powder.

I don’t have a lab at my disposal, but I do have a chronograph and I know chrono results trend with pressure. So, I measure with what I have. When I have a couple rounds outside my recorded day 1 standard deviation, I will pull a bullet. A situation I’ve not encountered, yet. The oldest ammo I have is only 25 years old and velocity trends are good, so far.

For old looking ammo, that I don’t know the history on, I’ll pull a bullet anyway, regardless.

I take a slightly different tack on the same idea: instead of making hundreds or thousands of a good load and storing them assembled, I buy a couple of pounds (at most) of a known-good powder and hundreds or thousands of projectiles for that developed load. Brass is quick and easy to process, even from range-pick-up status. Primers store easily for extended periods. The real variable is the powder and I eliminate that by not making more than I want/need/can use in less than 5 years at one time. Works for me.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Talking about old military ammo. anybody ever got ahold of the old 8mm mauser ammo that would take 1/2 seconds to fire! I shot some and it was like shooting a flint lock. squeeze…. hold hold hold… boom

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Talking about old military ammo. anybody ever got ahold of the old 8mm mauser ammo that would take 1/2 seconds to fire! I shot some and it was like shooting a flint lock. squeeze…. hold hold hold… boom

I saw hangfires more with POF .303 than with 7.92x57mm. They’re great for training on follow through and leading.

 

[KY DAN]

I shot 1000 rounds of 38 special in 2019 I loaded 9 years before.

Cci 500 primer, unique powder all went bang, I stored in a sealed 50 cal can in a 70 deg closet.

I think storage conditions mater more than anything.

In the end our smokeless ammunition will fail us...... black powder will not

 

[Mark_Mark]

I saw hangfires more with POF .303 than with 7.92x57mm. They’re great for training on follow through and leading.

my thoughts too! something we can agree on

 

[Walkalong]

That was my fear when getting the n135, and why it's on the priority use list. Get while the getting is good they say.

My N-133 from the same time is still good, at 20 plus years. I have other Vihtavuori powders that are over 10 years old, they're fine too....