Shiloh Sharps question?

[lonegunman]

I really do not care to get into the blackpowder/smokeless powder whining that accompanies any post about reloading a 19th century rifle.

In spite of whatever is posted or disclaimed by Shiloh Sharps, Garrett Ammunition says their +P 45-70 is suitable for Shiloh rifles on their website and almost no reloading manuals have blackpowder information.

That being said, does anyone here load 45-90 or 45-70 in a Sharps replica of any kind? If so what are you using. I see several high bulk smokless powders designed for cowboy action shooting and can never seem to find reloading data for them. Where is a good place to start?

I have worked up a decent smokeless load with 500gr and 535gr bullets, it is low pressure and runs slightly faster than typical blackpowder loads. I am hunting for more information.

I love the gun with the exception of the factory buckhorn sights are totally useless at any range. They are two feet high at 100 yds, the lowest setting on the ladder is even higher. I'd rather not grind down a front sight to use a sight I do not care for anyway. I am looking at some sights from Baldwin or MVA, any suggestions for shooting to 1000yds?

 

[ArmedBear]

almost no reloading manuals have blackpowder information.

One reason for this is that there's not much to it. It can be a PITA, but that's about experimenting and fitting the cartridge just right (especially with big bullets). The loading manual can't really help you much.

You just drop some 2F through a drop tube until the case is almost full -- usually about 68 grains.

As with any reloading, consistency matters more than anything. Winning long range shooters are known to take 8 hours to load 40 rounds, weighing and measuring everything.

I've only used BP .45-70 and a Sharps replica for hunting. You don't need much velocity, and fist-sized groups at 100 yards are good enough for buffalo.

My hat's off to anyone who does the long range stuff. More patience than I have, at least on weekends.

 

[Jim Watson]

Shiloh says their rifles will handle "Ruger loads" but recommend you use starting "Ruger loads" and let their longer-than-20th-century barrels get back the velocity of the max load.

Lyman and Hodgdon have two and three tier load data for different vintage rifles. Unfortunately, the Hodgdon is only with 400 gr and lighter bullets for moderate range hunting. You really need Ken Waters 'Pet Loads' piece on the .45-70. Friend of mine loaded a Marlin with Elmer Keith's old favorite and amazed everybody with its punch on both ends.

Loading black powder is not a matter of reading a recipe out of a cookbook manual, it is following a process until you get a combination that shoots well.

I am not going to whine about the virtues of black versus smokeless, but unless you can get the velocity variation of a nitro load down into single digits, you will do better at long range with black.

MVA tang and globe sights are the most common I see at BPCR shoots, closely followed by Baldwin with a good number of Kelleys. I don't see much to choose between their tang sights. You will definitely need a long range model to get out to 1000 yards.

I definitely prefer a front globe sight with the spirit level inside the tube and with inserts retained by a screw collar as available from Baldwin, Kelley, Heilman, and Shaver instead of the authentic looking external level and leaf spring retainer of an MVA.

A lot of the guys on the Shiloh board
http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/
prefer Ron Heilman's sights, and they are less expensive than other makes. The Hoke with vernier instead of Soule windage adjustment also has a following.

What I shoot with is Baldwin, front and rear.

 

[ArmedBear]

Loading black powder is not a matter of reading a recipe out of a cookbook manual, it is following a process until you get a combination that shoots well.

That says it better than I did.

A cookbook formula would be a few lines. Your best load, based on the simple formula, can take a lot longer to figure out.

 

[Sunray]

My brand spanking new(virgin reading of the .45-90 page), Lyman BP Handbook & Loading Manual has data for the .45-90. 292, 405, 480, 500 and 535 grain cast bullets. The loads are by volume not weight and that matters. The 480 and up grain bullets are for single shot rifles only.
You still have to work up the load.

 

[lonegunman]

There is also a 545gr Creedmore bullet out there, where would you find data on that? Especially in 45-90.

I'm going to tinker with smokeless for a while. Eventually I will figure out a way to work blackpowder into my skills.

What is a good book for reading up in blackpowder?

 

[Jim Watson]

I think there is good information at:
http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/Resources/Introduction to BPCR Loading.pdf

Check out the Technical Information at
http://www.bpcr.net/
Dick Trenk (Mr Pedersoli USA) has a good article there, although his use of a simple muzzleloader's volume powder charger is not in step with the practice I learned. Most BPCR target shooters I know prefer to weigh their loads. Which is what the Sharps Rifle Company recommended about 125 years ago. The rest use equipment and technique equal to benchrest shooters for precise volumetric loading, no "grains volume" nonsense.

Mike Venturino's 'Shooting the Buffalo Rifles' is kind of general but interesting reading.
His and Steve Garbe's SPG Primer is a bit dated* but is a good introduction.
(*There is less use of magnum primers now, and more compression in straight cases like .45-70 and .45-90.)