Shipping a firearm: charging for insurance?

[Elkins45]

I've purchased several firearm's from Bud's Gun Shop over the years. Because their retail store is only an hour away from me I've always used them as the pickup location. It's been 3-4 years since the last time and I thought I would take advantage of the S&W rebate to try out an M&P 10mm. As I was going through the checkout process the option popped up to pay for insurance on the shipment. This is something that I hadn't encountered before when buying a gun from them.



What? Doesn't the insurance protect them, not me? Is this just a way to claw back some of the cost of their "free shipping"?

 

[dogtown tom]

.....What? Doesn't the insurance protect them, not me? Is this just a way to claw back some of the cost of their "free shipping"?

Bud's has been doing this for over a decade.
It is indeed a means of recouping $ spent on shipping.

If your shipment never arrives and you paid for insurance, Bud's will happily resend the item you purchased.
If your shipment never arrives and you did not pay for insurance, Bud's will begrudgingly resend the item you purchased.

Credit card companies invariably rule chargebacks in favor of the customer who never received their package or received a damaged item. If the seller can provide proof of delivery its another story.


"Free shipping" is never free. UPS/FedEx/USPS don't accept shipments as favors to their buddies.

 

[Elkins45]

Bud's has been doing this for over a decade.

I don’t think they’ve been doing it for retail store pickups or I would have remembered. I’ve never had them ship a gun to anyone other than themselves.

"Free shipping" is never free. UPS/FedEx/USPS don't accept shipments as favors to their buddies.

Yeah, hence the quotes. That’s pretty sneaky IMO.

As it turns out it’s a moot point now. The 10mm Pro Pak is out of stock. I liked the idea of the two extra magazines for an extra $8.

 

[Speedo66]

I wouldn’t pay insurance for an in store pickup. If it’s not in their own store when you arrive, I can’t see how it’s on you.

 

[AlexanderA]

The risk of loss in transit depends on whether the shipment is "FOB destination" or "FOB the shipping point." If it's "FOB destination," the seller is on the hook until it gets to you. Otherwise, you're on the hook for loss.

From the blurb quoted in the OP, it appears that Bud's is shipping FOB the shipping point. In other words, they're claiming to wash their hands once they deliver to the common carrier.

Regardless, I would pay for the insurance out of an abundance of caution. Remember, they have your money before they ship.

 

[Elkins45]

Remember, they have your money before they ship.

They didn’t used to for in-store pickup. You could select that option and just pay at the retail store. I’m not sure if that’s changed too because I didn’t get that far in the process.

 

[dogtown tom]

The risk of loss in transit depends on whether the shipment is "FOB destination" or "FOB the shipping point." If it's "FOB destination," the seller is on the hook until it gets to you. Otherwise, you're on the hook for loss.

FOB or "Free on Board" is a term used in shipping freight and never in my years of shipping and receiving firearms has any package been shipped FOB of any sort. As explained in another thread:
Every credit card company sides with the buyer when the item doesn't arrive in the condition as advertised.
As does every gun forum.
As does Ebay.
As does Amazon.
As does GunBroker.


How FedEx defines FOB http://www.fedex.com/bh/shippingguide/glossary.html

Free on Board (FOB)
The goods are placed on board the vessel by the seller at the port of shipment specified in the sales contract. The risk of loss or damage is transferred to the buyer when the goods pass the ship’s rail.

How UPS defines FOB:https://www.ups.com/us/en/supplychain/insights/knowledge/glossary-term/free-on-board.page#:~:text=Free on Board (FOB),-Share

What is Free on Board (FOB)?
An Incoterms® rule, applicable only to ocean or waterway transport, under which the seller clears the goods for export and delivers them on board the vessel nominated by the buyer at the named port of shipment, at which point risk transfers from seller to buyer. Buyer is responsible for arranging and paying for transport and any clearances during transit and for import.

Please tell us what ships FedEx, UPS and USPS use in a domestic firearm shipment.

 

[AlexanderA]

Please tell us what ships FedEx, UPS and USPS use in a domestic firearm shipment.

Check the Uniform Commercial Code. It applies in almost all states. "FOB" is a standard concept. It doesn't apply just to ships, but to any common carrier. And the FOB terms don't have to be overtly stated. A lot of this stuff applies by default. (It's been more than 50 years since I studied this stuff in law school, but the basics have stuck with me.)

 

[dogtown tom]

Check the Uniform Commercial Code. It applies in almost all states. "FOB" is a standard concept. It doesn't apply just to ships, but to any common carrier.

UPS & FedEx think so....and I gave you the link to their definitions.

And the FOB terms don't have to be overtly stated. A lot of this stuff applies by default. (It's been more than 50 years since I studied this stuff in law school, but the basics have stuck with me.)

Every credit card company sides with the buyer when the item doesn't arrive in the condition as advertised.
As does every gun forum.
As does Ebay.
As does Amazon.
As does GunBroker.

Think why that is.

 

[bdickens]

Please tell us what ships FedEx, UPS and USPS use in a domestic firearm shipment.

What I want to know is why stuff that is sent via ground transportation is called a "shipment" and stuff sent on a ship is called "cargo."

 

[wayneinFL]

Yes, the insurance allows the seller/ shipper to recoup money, not the buyer.

I tried to claim damages on two shotguns that were shipped to me. They were delivered with the muzzles dented all to hell, sticking out of the box. I couldn't refuse shipment, because even though the package was shipped adult signature, the driver dropped them at the front door when I wasn't home. ,
UPS would not give me the money- the money had to go to the shipper. The shipper refused to pay. I paid for insurance for nothing.

 

[Elkins45]

What I want to know is why stuff that is sent via ground transportation is called a "shipment" and stuff sent on a ship is called "cargo."

It’s probably the same reason you drive on a parkway but park in a driveway.

 

[dogtown tom]

Yes, the insurance allows the seller/ shipper to recoup money, not the buyer.

I tried to claim damages on two shotguns that were shipped to me. They were delivered with the muzzles dented all to hell, sticking out of the box. I couldn't refuse shipment, because even though the package was shipped adult signature, the driver dropped them at the front door when I wasn't home. ,
UPS would not give me the money- the money had to go to the shipper. The shipper refused to pay. I paid for insurance for nothing.

Every carrier allows either shipper or recipient to file a claim for loss, damage or theft.
Unless you are an FFL you shouldn't be receiving firearm shipments. If that's the case, any carrier would deny such a claim because it violates their tariff and federal law.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

Every carrier allows either shipper or recipient to file a claim for loss, damage or theft.
Unless you are an FFL you shouldn't be receiving firearm shipments. If that's the case, any carrier would deny such a claim because it violates their tariff and federal law.

I am always named as the recipient on shipments, even if they are sent c/o to my dealer, so that I can be sure to be a party to the shipping transaction and involve myself in any claims.

 

[wayneinFL]

Okay, maybe the carriers do allow a recipient a claim as long as its not me. I couldn't get anywhere with UPS on the phone in the 30-45 minutes that I had the patience to deal with them.

I had a FFL at the time, and I was the recipient. I didn't do anything illegal or against their policy.

Maybe their strategy at the time was to make the process difficult enough that you just didn't get to the right person and file a claim.

Unless I really, really trust a seller, I don't use anything but a credit card, so I can dispute the charge.

 

[dogtown tom]

Maybe their strategy at the time was to make the process difficult enough that you just didn't get to the right person and file a claim....