Shipping a Gun or Receiver Directly To An FFL

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MagnumDweeb

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I've got a spare AR lower receiver sitting around and a cousin of mine could use one. He's in Georgia, I'm in Florida, he has an FFL guy he uses and I've used my FFL where folks have shipped directly to the FFL. Can someone point me in the direction of the source of that info if they could please. Thanks. Just want to make sure I don't break any laws.
 
1st step is to find out if the receiving FFL will accept shipments from a non-FFL. (Even though it's legal, some won't and it's their call.)
 
1. As deadin said.
2. You will have to compare prices. UPS/Fedex have a tendency to cost $45 or more, plus hassle of going to Service Center.
3. USPS shipping, with insurance, is around $17, plus FFL transfer fee on your end. If FFL charges $25 or less, it is probably cheaper to ship through your FFL.
 
From the ATF Firearms FAQ:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-usps


"Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm."

There is no legal requirement for an FFL on the shipping end, although some FFLs insist on it anyway. I don't recall whether a bare receiver is considered a long gun or a handgun for shipping purposes.
 
ship it priority insured us mail with trackng. they accept rifles, rifle parts. ship to ffl dealer. no problem, no issue-don't have to identify as rifle either. ar receiver could fit their 4.95 box plus insurance. handguns--if you are an individual--gotta go overnight--big $$$$. dealers can send handguns via us postal.

:banghead:
 
kimbershot: ship it priority insured us mail with trackng. they accept rifles, rifle parts. ship to ffl dealer. no problem, no issue-don't have to identify as rifle either. ar receiver could fit their 4.95 box plus insurance. handguns--if you are an individual--gotta go overnight--big $$$$. dealers can send handguns via us postal.

Per USPS Domestic Mail Manual, ONLY rifles or shotguns may be mailed by someone who is not a firearms dealer, manufacturer or LEO in a few circumstances. A stripped AR lower is neither a rifle or shotgun and therefore NOT MAILABLE except by a licensed dealer, manufacturer or LEO.

A stripped AR lower is NOT a rifle, shotgun or pistol- it is an "Other Firearm". Meaning it is not yet a rifle, shotgun or pistol. As it IS a serilaized part it is considered a firearm under Federal law.

If you slap a stock on it is now magically NOT a handgun, and may be mailed by a nonlicensee. There is no requirement to notify USPS that you are shipping a firearm (inless you are a dealer mailing a handgun).
 
dogtown tom said:
Per USPS Domestic Mail Manual, ONLY rifles or shotguns may be mailed by someone who is not a firearms dealer, manufacturer or LEO in a few circumstances. A stripped AR lower is neither a rifle or shotgun and therefore NOT MAILABLE except by a licensed dealer, manufacturer or LEO.

That is not correct. The Domestic Mail Manual does not mention receivers as being nonmailable. As far as rifles and shotguns are concerned, the Domestic Mail Manual states that they are not precluded from mailing, not that they are the only types of firearms allowed. There are other types of firearms that are not mentioned that are mailed every day. A prime example is machine guns.

As far as the law is concerned, what is not forbidden is allowed.
 
I tend to agree with dogtown tom on this one.

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#8_0

11.0 Other Restricted and Nonmailable Matter
11.1 Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms
11.1.1 Definitions
The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:

a. Handgun means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm or device the mailing of which is regulated by this standard.

b. Pistol or revolver means a handgun styled to be fired by the use of a single hand and to fire or otherwise expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

c. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, designed to, or that may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

11.1.2 Handguns
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 11.1.3 and 11.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 11.1.4 and 11.1.6.

Would not a stripped lower receiver be considered an "other firearm" and according to the definition in a. above be considered by the post office to be a "handgun"?
 
It's springtime. The weather is finally nice enough to enjoy being outside. Take a Saturday drive, meet him at a nice resturant about midway between yourselves and hand it to him. He buys lunch (order off the top of the menu!) and you both enjoy a nice scenic ride home and avoid trying to interpert the convolutions of firearm shipping laws.
 
If you slap a stock on it is now magically NOT a handgun, and may be mailed by a nonlicensee. There is no requirement to notify USPS that you are shipping a firearm (inless you are a dealer mailing a handgun).

I am not sure this is correct.

I always tell the USPS I am shipping an unloaded long gun.
 
bushmaster1313
Quote:
If you slap a stock on it is now magically NOT a handgun, and may be mailed by a nonlicensee. There is no requirement to notify USPS that you are shipping a firearm (inless you are a dealer mailing a handgun).

I am not sure this is correct.

I am.

Feel free to try and find where either USPS or ATF regulations state differently.
 
CoRoMo said:
If the receiver was ever a part of a rifle, isn't it still considered a rifle when it is stripped back down?

Not according to the US Post Office. You have to take into account that the Post Office has different definitions of firearms, handguns and rifles than the ATF does. The Post Office considers a handgun to be "Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns)." A stripped lower receiver is both an "other firearm" and capable of being concealed on the person. Notice also this from the DMM:

e. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.

Even if the stripped lower receiver is considered to be a rifle, it has characteristics (the removal of the upper and buttstock), to allow concealment on the person.

Old Shooter said:
It's springtime. The weather is finally nice enough to enjoy being outside. Take a Saturday drive, meet him at a nice resturant about midway between yourselves and hand it to him. He buys lunch (order off the top of the menu!) and you both enjoy a nice scenic ride home and avoid trying to interpert the convolutions of firearm shipping laws.

Right.... and now both the buyer and the seller have committed Federal felonies.
 
Last edited:
Old Shooter said:
It's springtime. The weather is finally nice enough to enjoy being outside. Take a Saturday drive, meet him at a nice resturant about midway between yourselves and hand it to him. He buys lunch (order off the top of the menu!) and you both enjoy a nice scenic ride home and avoid trying to interpert the convolutions of firearm shipping laws.

Maybe you missed this in the OP :)

He's in Georgia, I'm in Florida
 
EOD Guy Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom

Per USPS Domestic Mail Manual, ONLY rifles or shotguns may be mailed by someone who is not a firearms dealer, manufacturer or LEO in a few circumstances. A stripped AR lower is neither a rifle or shotgun and therefore NOT MAILABLE except by a licensed dealer, manufacturer or LEO.

That is not correct. The Domestic Mail Manual does not mention receivers as being nonmailable.It also doesn't mention elephants or whales by name either and neither is mailable. As far as rifles and shotguns are concerned, the Domestic Mail Manual states that they are not precluded from mailing, If you will reread my post you will note that I said BOTH rifles and shotguns are mailable not that they are the only types of firearms allowed. There are other types of firearms that are not mentioned that are mailed every day I know. I mail handguns every week because dealers are allowed to mail handguns. A prime example is machine guns. NFA has nothing to do with this post, but since you brought it up, if a machine gun is also a handgun (Glock 18 for example) it is not mailable except by a dealer, manufacturer or LEO.

As far as the law is concerned, what is not forbidden is allowed. Rifles and shotguns are specifically mentioned as being mailable by anyone. Pistols, revolvers and OTHER firearms (capable of being concealed on the person) are not

Have you read the DMM? http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1065404 I have:

11.0 Other Restricted and Nonmailable Matter
11.1 Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms
11.1.1 Definitions
The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:

a. Handgun means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm or device the mailing of which is regulated by this standard. ATF considers the receiver, lower or frame of a firearm as a firearm- even if the USPS does not.

b. Pistol or revolver means a handgun styled to be fired by the use of a single hand and to fire or otherwise expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

c. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, designed to, or that may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

d. Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.

e. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.

f. Licensed manufacturer and licensed dealer mean, respectively, a manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer of firearms, duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), 18 USC 921, et seq. Note that 03FFL Collector of Curios & Relics is NOT consider a dealer or manufacturer by USPS

g. Antique firearm means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

11.1.2 Handguns
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 11.1.3 and 11.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 11.1.4 and 11.1.6. 03FFL (C&R's) cannot mail or receive by mail any handgun or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.
11.1.3 Authorized Persons
Subject to 11.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties:

a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.

b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.

c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.

d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.

e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.

f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.

g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e.

11.1.4 Affidavit of Addressee
Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 11.1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee's official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:

a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.

b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.

c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.

d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e, Authorized Persons.

11.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.


11.1.6 Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers
A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 11.1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major component parts thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms.
If you are NOT a dealer or manufacturer and your local post office tells you to sign a Form 1508 (Statement of a Shipper of Firearms) you are committing perjury.
11.1.7 FBI Crime Detection Bureaus
Handguns may be mailed without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6 if:

a. Addressed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or its director, or to the scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or officers of a state, territory, or district authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment; or

b. Offered by an authorized agent of the federal government as an official shipment to any qualified addressee in categories 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, or to a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms or to a federal agency.

11.2 Antique Firearms
Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6.

11.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e.

11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns.
Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.This includes postal employees!!!

Do not confuse what the USPS considers as a firearm with ATF regulations stating what is a firearm. They do not necessarily coincide. And they BOTH most certainly apply. Not to mention local and state regulations.

For example: If the USPS says it's A OKAY to mail a Glockchester POS101 to California because USPS does not consider it a handgun- you need to see if ATF DOES consider it a handgun AND you need to see if it is legal to ship that firearm to a dealer in California.
 
Dogtown:

I am [sure that you do not have to tell the counter clerk at USPS]

Feel free to try and find where either USPS or ATF regulations state differently.

How does the USPS know that you have a firearm if you do not tell them?

11.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e.
 
bushmaster1313: How does the USPS know that you have a firearm if you do not tell them?

They don't:rolleyes:. Nothing in USPS regulations require anyone to tell USPS that a rifle or shotgun is in the package being mailed. Dealers & manufacturers are required to submit a Form 1508 "Statement of a Shipper of Firearms" only when mailing a handgun.

If you are not a dealer or manufacturer you have no forms to fill out.

As it says in the paragraph you quoted: "The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e." So.....if you tell USPS that you are shipping a rifle or shotgun- USPS may require the above.
 
bushmaster1313 said:
Perhaps I only need to tell the UPS people under their internal rules.
This isn't "their internal rules" - this is a federal law.

My advice is for you to stop shipping firearms altogether.

You really should read the appropriate laws, as not following them can lead to a felony.
 
nalioth said:
This isn't "their internal rules" - this is a federal law.

The title of this thread is "Shipping a Gun or Receiver Directly To An FFL".

Federal law does NOT require notification to the shipper of a shipment containing the firearm if it is going to an FFL.

nalioth said:
You really should read the appropriate laws, as not following them can lead to a felony.

Let me help. 18 USC 922 (e):
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped
 
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