Shoot to Defend a Car…the rest of the story.

[October]

Apparently, the system can work properly when given time. Based on speculation in a previous thread about how unjustified this shooting was (relying on initial media reports), I think this shows how little credence should be given to initial media reports.

Looking back, Bennie Hall Jr. said Friday that he never would have pulled the trigger if he had known the car thief was only 14.

Hall said he worried about what would happen to his family if he had to go to prison.

Now, he won't have to because Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters said Friday that he wouldn't bring Hall's case before a grand jury. Deters concluded, based on a police investigation, that Hall acted in self-defense when he shot Quavale Finnell.

Entire story.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Olivia Champion, Quavale's grandmother, said she is frustrated because police haven't explained what happened. She heard about it in the media and from people who live near the crash, but never from authorities.

"I want more information," Champion, 58, said. Quavale lived with her on and off. "I want to make sure this is thoroughly investigated.

"If he was trying to use the car as a weapon, then I can accept this," Champion said.

As for himself, Hall said he hates the word vigilante, one he's heard frequently on the news when describing what happened.

"I was protecting myself," he said. "I am not Charles Bronson, out looking for people to shoot.

"This guy came to me. I am not a vigilante."
============================

Too bad the whole thing happened at all... but the 'rest of the story' makes it easier to understand.

lpl/nc

 

[griz]

Sad story all around. At least the car/gun owner is OK.

 

[Tim James]

"If he was trying to use the car as a weapon, then I can accept this," [the boy's grandmother] said.

Amazing. This is the first time I've seen a family member acknowledge that their little boy could possibly be in the wrong.

About 6:15 a.m. Hall, getting ready to leave for work, went outside to warm his 1994 Ford Taurus. He left it idling at the curb, then headed back inside to finish getting ready.

Modern fuel-injected cars don't need to be warmed up. They are safe to drive almost immediately without damaging the engine. Idling cars outside seems like just an invitation for criminals of opportunity.

 

[bouis]

Maybe the car doesn't need to be "warmed up" to drive, but it does need to be warmed up for the heater and the defroster to work

<>

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Looking back, Bennie Hall Jr. said Friday that he never would have pulled the trigger if he had known the car thief was only 14.

Right, because it is okay to be run over by a 14 year old, but not a 20 year old?

Apparently so.

"If I had known he was a child, I would have taken the hit," Hall said. "I would have laid down and not fired the gun.

I don't know how physics work in Cinncinnati, but here in Texas, the threat posed by being run over by a car and killed or seriously injured isn't all that different between whether the driver is a 14 year old felon or an adult felon.

I just don't understand the guy's logic that his law-abiding adult life is somehow less precious than than of a child felon. I am sure his life is meaningless to his family, hence his remorse...

Hall is a father of five, has 11 grandchildren and takes care of his 91-year-old father, who has Alzheimer's.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I just don't see the significance of not defending one's life just because the aggressor who has the ability to kill you and is apparently attempting such harm isn't of age.

Maybe he needs as "We I.D." sticker on his home and vehicle like the stores have so that criminals will know that he only allows child criminals free reign of his belongings and life.

 

[Blacklabman]

"If I had known he was a child, I would have taken the hit," Hall said. "I would have laid down and not fired the gun.


I find this comment, to be without logic.
He simply added Chlorine to the Gene Pool.
Good for him.

 

[CoachVince]

Try not to be too hard on somebody who probably just killed a child for the first time. Also, he may have been given some advice on what to say to help avoid both prosecution in the courts and persecution in the media.

 

[CornCod]

Yeah, dropping the hammer on another human being is a serious thing. No moral person DESIRES to kill, even in self-defense. Because the little brat was irresponsible, that poor man is going to have to carry around the trauma of killing a teenager around with him for the rest of his life.

 

[CornCod]

Oh and BTW, that car-theft victim must be either lucky or one heck of a shot. Just think about the stress involved with a speeding car barrelling down at you and the criminal holding his head behind the wheel.

Its like the old joke about Carnegie Hall, practice, practice practice. Excuse me while I get ready to go to the range...........

 

[Joe Demko]

Chlorine to the Gene Pool.

This might have passed for cool, dry wit the first couple of million times somebody used the expression. Now it is, at best, tiresome. If you mean to say that you think his killing a 14-year old thief was, in the long run, a good thing for society then just say it. Skip the ersatz 80's Schwarzeneggerisms.

This thread has real potential to ugly and locked like the threads that spawned it. I urge all who post to choose your words very carefully.

 

[Kentak]

What happened, happened. I'm glad Hall isn't going to be prosecuted, even though I might argue that he could have avoided the life threatening situation by not going into the street in the path of the car. But, I probably would have done the same thing. Not sure about the shooting, but that's not the point.

Maybe I'm just getting crabby in my getting-older age, but instead of asking what the hell is wrong with society that people are shooting kids, we should ask why the hell do 14 year olds think it's okay to drive off with somebody else's car and try to run them down.

K

 

[Deanimator]

This might have passed for cool, dry wit the first couple of million times somebody used the expression. Now it is, at best, tiresome. If you mean to say that you think his killing a 14-year old thief was, in the long run, a good thing for society then just say it. Skip the ersatz 80's Schwarzeneggerisms.

That 14-year old got killed before he killed somebody else, as he was apparently attempting to do when he got shot. I think it's wrong to shoot somebody who just steals a car and drives away. If you steal a car and try to run somebody over with it, you deserve to die. Adult decisions have adult consequences. There's certainly no more adult of a decision than the one to crush and mangle someone with a multi-ton metal and glass missile.

I don't waste sympathy on people who don't deserve it, nor am I susceptible to emotional blackmail by people who think I ought to.

 

[Joe Demko]

Deanimator, I haven't voiced an opinion in this thread on whether shooting the thief was the right thing to do or not. I'm saying that people who post to this thread should say exactly what they mean, no more no less, and skip the tiresome cliches while doing so. Hell, it'd be a wonderful thing for people to do that in all times and places. Does parroting 80's action movie-style dialog help make a point clearer? Does it strengthen one's position in a debate? Does it make one seem charming and witty?

 

[cbsbyte]

Just don't try this in Mass, since it is completely illegal to use any force to protect personal property, including cars and pets. The shooter would be spending time in prison if he tried this in the Bay State.

 

[Handgun Midas]

I think that Hall was probably so relieved to not be indicted that he let a little political correctness out, in good will, with the "I'd let the widdle boy kill me" comment.

I think that's understandable, if completely un-needed.
Anyway, good news so far.

 

[Cousin Mike]

Unless any of you have killed a child, I doubt you know what this man is feeling or how he sleeps at night. Calling the guy a pussy just isn't cool. In fact, it's pretty damned ignorant. Be glad it was a clean shoot and that he won't be going to jail for the rest of his life. I can't understand for the life of me why someone would choose to insult the victim in this case.

OT stuff removed by Art

 

[Handgun Midas]

Unless any of you have killed a child...

You are not incorrect, however I don't belive that many of us here are viewing this young man who attempted to steal a car and murder the owner with it as a child. Those are not things that a child does, even by accident.

That is a healthier, more realistic, and less PC mindset than Hall's comment about voluntarily losing his car and life because the theif was four years underage.
I am not insulting Hall when I bring this point up, but I recognize his comments as not doing any good for acceptance of self-defense in the general public. Highlighting that one facet reminds us to say as little as possible to the media when embroiled in such a legal and political calamity.

 

[MechAg94]

Glad he is not being prosecuted. I have never had to shoot at anyone, but I can't really come up with any sympathy for a thief getting shot regarless of the self defense angle.

 

[Cousin Mike]

You make good points, Handgun Midas.

One being that some of us see the deceased as a child, some don't. What Mr. Hall is thinking and feeling is most important IMO, and he very well may feel that he killed a child. I know I wouldn't feel too good about having to take out a 14 year old, no matter what he did. I'd probably spend the rest of my life just wishing the whole thing never happened... that is, whenever I crawled out of a bottle long enough to think about it.

I can clearly understand what you're saying about his statements, and how in a way, they don't help when it comes to the issues of self defense in this country. You never said anything I took issue with. But a couple of folks did insult the victim and challenge his mindstate... and I think that's pretty disgusting in a situation like this.

 

[Deanimator]

Does parroting 80's action movie-style dialog help make a point clearer? Does it strengthen one's position in a debate? Does it make one seem charming and witty?

Some people just aren't as loquacious, witty and eloquent as I am.

If a "Die-Hardism" clearly conveys the sentiment intended, I see nothing wrong with it.

As radio talk-show host Dennis Prager so aptly puts it, clarity is more important than agreement. Conciseness has a charm all it's own.

And you can be DEAD sure that if the deceased had failed in his act of self-defense, his assailant would NOT be agonizing over that man's death. He'd be bragging to every fellow lowlife he's ever met about what he'd done.

 

[Blacklabman]

This might have passed for cool, dry wit the first couple of million times somebody used the expression. Now it is, at best, tiresome. If you mean to say that you think his killing a 14-year old thief was, in the long run, a good thing for society then just say it. Skip the ersatz 80's Schwarzeneggerisms.

This thread has real potential to ugly and locked like the threads that spawned it. I urge all who post to choose your words very carefully.


How about this.
The man is a fool, is he misses a single moment of sleep over shoot a thief.
Atleast he shot the thief, before he was able to reproduce.
They should give him a parade.

Is that plain enough?

 

[Joe Demko]

If a "Die-Hardism" clearly conveys the sentiment intended, I see nothing wrong with it.

Beyond displaying a stultifying lack of originality and giving the impression that one thinks real life has anything in common with an action movie, I guess you could say there is nothing wrong with it.

As radio talk-show host Dennis Prager so aptly puts it, clarity is more important than agreement. Conciseness has a charm all it's own.

"Killing a thief benefits society" is not less concise than

He simply added Chlorine to the Gene Pool.

And you can be DEAD sure that if the deceased had failed in his act of self-defense, his assailant would NOT be agonizing over that man's death. He'd be bragging to every fellow lowlife he's ever met about what he'd done.

You may believe that. You may, in fact, squinch your eyes tight-shut and believe it with all your heart. It'll remain your opinion, unless you have telepathic powers you have yet to reveal. How is it you have so much knowledge what this dead thief would be doing if he were still alive?

 

[Deanimator]

"Killing a thief benefits society" is not less concise than

Neither is "Killing an attempted murderer in the act benefits society", and it's even accurate.

You may believe that.

Not only do I believe it, it's in all likelihood true, based on the behavior of many other violent criminals. They frequently brag of their "exploits". That's why they have jailhouse snitches.

The little monster is dead, and I for one am not particularly sorry.

 

[Erebus]

The man is a fool, is he misses a single moment of sleep over shoot a thief.

That's cold. Would killing a human being really be that trivial to you? Have you ever killed someone? I don't think I have any idea how it would effect me to kill someone. I know I can do it if I am forced to. But I don't think I can imagine how it would effect me.